[zozbot234]

But then the pattern across strings is also "relative" and only depends on the guitar tuning you're playing. For instance in the standard tuning, two neighboring strings are always a perfect fourth apart (five frets) unless they're the G-B strings in which case they're a major third apart (four frets). So if you know where you'd be playing a note on one string, that same note is just five frets back or four frets back on the next one. Which is again a totally "relative" framing that works for any individual note the same way. You can even figure out where you'd have to play if the tuning was non-standard. These patterns only have to be practiced a little bit, there's not really any need to learn them from scratch.

(If anything, I would want a "guitar learning" app to automatically come up with its own exercises, similar to ear training apps for learning to recognize intervals - and using something like a spaced repetition approach to evaluate how the user is doing.)

[fastasucan]

Sounds like you answered your own question:

> What do you need "scales" practice for on guitar?

> These patterns only have to be practiced a little bit

[Davertron]

This is why learning guitar when I was younger was so difficult to me; people just presented things like "you have to learn these 5 scale patterns" but they didn't really go into why, it was just "memorize this stuff and then you'll be good!", but I hate rote memorization without understanding the underlying principles. I'm old and didn't have the internet back then so I was just learning from various books or friends and it was slow going, but I still see things like this presented in tons of Youtube videos today.

I've since gone back and learned a bit of music theory as an adult and it's been super helpful understanding the underlying principles so I can work things out vs. having to just memorize things without understanding why they work.

I think then you can go practice the various scale patterns and get good at them with the knowledge that you can always work out the scale from first principles if you need to.

Different strokes for different folks though I guess, I'm sure there's an argument to be made for not overwhelming folks with too much theory out of the gate. Not sure if I had started with a bunch of theory if I would have stuck with it when I was younger.

[zozbot234]

> not overwhelming folks with too much theory out of the gate.

Thing is, it's not even "too much theory". It really is just a simple tone-semitone pattern and a few bare facts about how the usual guitar tuning works, that you'd know anyway if you've ever had to tune your guitar by hand. That's all it takes to make the guitar explainable from first principles. Then sure, you can practice the "patterns" all you want for convenience's sake, but you don't have to commit anything to memory that you could not figure out again from scratch if needed.

[Davertron]

> Thing is, it's not even "too much theory".

I would agree with you. I feel like watching videos where someone goes "hey, so here's this pattern that completely unlocks the neck for you, don't be stuck in a box anymore!" and all they're showing you is where the various notes in a key are along the neck (now I know that, but I wouldn't have known that before...) and it's WAY more confusing than if you just learn how the pentatonic scale works and how to find the notes in a key etc. And the funny thing is, the only reason I was stuck in that box in the first place is because of silly rote memorization without understanding why you play the various notes in a scale etc., it just feels like this thing that kind of compounds when you just learn patterns vs. just learning the underlying principles.

But again, I'm completely amateur at this stuff still, and I don't have any experience teaching other folks an instrument, so it's hard for me to say with any certainty that we should be teaching it one way or another I guess.

[jmkr]

> This is why learning guitar when I was younger was so difficult to me

I agree. The downvoted op is right in a way. Guitarists have a way to make things difficult. Just learn to play the 1 octave major scale/arpeggio, and triads, then 7th shells. The guitar is relative, a 1 octave scale on a guitar is the same, on keyboard it's positional.

However it's worth mentioning that I think Berklee does teach patterns, and a few jazz guitarists say to learn it too. It almost seems like learning guitar is not as worked out as other instruments. Everybody that gets good winds up having to learn all the things other guitarists have had to figure out over years after they rote learned it.

[compiler-guy]

Nearly every popular-music guitar lesson series in the world teaches the five various pentatonic patterns--the few exceptions being those that focus on classical guitar or non-western music. You might find this article interesting.

https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/43516/can-someone-...

There is definitely theory to how they are constructed, and you are right that the shifts and adjustments can be derived if you think about it and practice it. But that's just a longer way to the five patterns.

[cma]

The other patterns for the basic scales are just the missing notes too, like black keys being pentatonics and white being a traditional scale.