[s1artibartfast]

Are you okay with Trump having the power to do each of those quoted actions? To decide if the opposition is a threat to democracy or if elections must be canceled "as a last resort".

I read that list and it looks like instructions on how to end democracy, not preserve it

[frereubu]

Not advocating for that specific list of actions, but the idea is that the courts have the power to do those kinds of things, not politicians. That's the whole point - you set up the legal system in a way that helps to keep democracy stable and then the courts enforce that so politicians don't have untrammelled power. That's (theoretically) why the judiciary is a separate branch of government.

[guizmo]

But the question is still there. Are you comfortable with a Trump appointed judge having those powers?

[sham1]

To put the long story short: yes.

Americans made their bed, now let them lay in it. Ideally those tools would have been used against him, but since they weren't... now is the time to reap the results of that inaction.

[frereubu]

Every democracy has a failure point. The US seems to be past that now, where the executive is starting to ignore the judicial branch. In my view, if the institutions were working correctly, Trump would never have been able to stand again after January 6th, and this would have been as a result of judgements by judges appointed by the executive. But institutions are run by humans and sometimes nothing can save them.

[darthrupert]

Trump should have been the target of defensive democracy, not the abuser of it. At least if US would have had a working version of the concept.

So your question seems to evade the point.

[refurb]

As you said “no system is perfect” so you’d have to accept that it fails to stop someone like Trump from getting into office.

It’s like having a gun to defender yourself then the criminal takes it from you.

So are you comfortable with someone like Trump using those same tools?

[darthrupert]

Moot point as someone like Trump ignores existing tools and just makes his own.

Also, Trump could have been stopped by the processes in place in USA, they just were not properly used. There were several cases open against him, they just failed to do what they were supposed to.

[refurb]

How does Trump "make tools"? You think he can twist Congress' arm?

And no, Trump couldn't have been stopped because the US has very limited rules over criminal convictions preventing running for President.

This isn't Europe ya know.

[darthrupert]

That's not the problem. The US now effectively has a system where you don't prosecute presidents for any crime. You should note that the ongoing criminal investigations against Trump were mostly cancelled when it became obvious that he'll be the next president.

If this system had been in place when Nixon did his crimes, he would've just shrugged and kept going.

You are indeed not Europe now, not even close. Well, except for Hungary and Belarus.

[johnbronnan]

You are again comparing the flawed US "democratic" system to a real democracy. Trump should not be able to gain those tools because a functioning democracy protects the rule of law and holds justice to be above all other concepts. In the US, the legal system is a sham and the levers of power are easily taken for abuse (not to mention corporate capture of the two political parties which control all political life). So while Trump should not be able to capture those tools, it is only possible because the US does not have a real functioning democracy. In places like France, the state ensures that it is not possible to easily take complete power as Trump has in the US.

In short, no, Trump should not be able to take these tools. But in actual democracies they have checks to ensure that this is not possible while in the US no such checks exist.

[refurb]

I didn’t ask if Trump should be able to take those tools.

I asked if you would be comfortable if he did.

Either you believe it is possible to create a perfect political system which never makes a mistake, or you believe mistakes can be made thus those tools should never be available to those in power.

Which one is it?

[darthrupert]

That's easy. It's false dichotomy.

[refurb]

Saying either the world is perfect or not perfect is a false dichotomy?

I’m sure that encompasses all possible outcomes, so clearly it’s not false.