[samastur]

Cool work, but I'm more fascinated by your claim "99% of your life is stored in WhatsApp...".

Not even remotely true for me even if it would encompass all messaging apps I use. I guess I'm just an old introvert, but it makes me wonder how life looks like for those for whom it is true.

[CarlitosHighway]

The way to absolute dominance of WhatsApp with the Normies has't been sufficiently analyzed, I reckon. Somehow, WhatsApp managed to become extremely popular and heavily used by people who have trouble switching on a desktop pc. Even senior citizens have no trouble using it.

Is it because they have a high motivation to use it? The UI / UX of WhatsApp surely isn't great, I'd even say it's quite bad. Where am I wrong? What am I not seeing?

[rpastuszak]

I don't use WhatsApp, I helped most of my family and many friends move away from it, and I feel like we (you and I) see WA in a similar way. IMO the main issue here is the network effect and vendor lock-in (for the lack of a better term -- I'm writing this from my phone in a rush).

> Where am I wrong? What am I not seeing?

English is my second language, so maybe I'm missing some context here, but every time I hear techies calling non-techies "Normies", it's used in a derogatory / condescending fashion. That's reductive (non-techies are not a homogenous group) and somewhat intellectually lazy.

To give you an example, WA users in the US and, say Portugal or Poland ended up using it for slightly different reasons and in a different technical context. WA used to be the best video chat app for quite some time in the UK, AT or PL (imo), and I know of many people who started using it for that specific reason (esp. important for large migrant communities). FaceTime wasn't that popular because Android market share in the EU was bigger than in the US.

[gherkinnn]

WhatsApp acts the phone's entry point for many.

Contacts aren't stored on the phone, messages act as contacts. Phone and video calls also on WhatsApp. Photos are shared via WhatsApp so that's where the gallery is. It even functions as a calendar of sorts – events are organised in WhatsApp groups so there you have directions and dates and who brings what. More and more businesses use WhatsApp to communicate with customers.

Why people like this, I do not know. But this is what I observe. Maybe software in general is too shit to use so people prefer to take a sub-optimal WhatsApp-based life over fighting their phones at every step. And I can't blame them.

[gus_massa]

> Where am I wrong? What am I not seeing?

The killer application are the group chats. Normies can't make an email group, or remember to reply to all, or even make a Yahoo! Group [dead] or Google Group [dead?].

It's very easy to setup a group in WhatsApp and keep the member list updated.

For bonus points, it's very difficult to Ctr-C the info in WhatsApp, it's easier to press the arrow and forward the message to another WhatsApp group.

Once you have all your groups in WhatsApp, it's easier to use it for everything.

PS: Also, a few eons ago in many countries SMS had a cost, and WhatsApp was free, it was so another good point to use it.

[darkwater]

> PS: Also, a few eons ago in many countries SMS had a cost, and WhatsApp was free, it was so another good point to use it.

That was the starting point for sure in many European countries.

[jeroenhd]

The worst part is that it wasn't even free, you were still paying for the data unless you were on wifi. Standard text messaging was so expensive (and so terrible) that data rates obliterated standard phone services in both quality and price.

I remember paying 23 cents per SMS. Still, carriers were somehow surprised when people moved away from them.

Funnily enough, now that RCS is slowly making its way back, people seem to forget that free unlimited messages are hardly guaranteed with these services. Can't wait for the backlash when the first iPhone users start getting charged for RCS messages with their Android contacts.

[vvillena]

WhatsApp nailed the onboarding experience. In a time where other services asked you to create an account with an email and password, which is enough of a hurdle already, WhatsApp looked up your phone number and said "I'm sending you an SMS, enter the number you received to check we got it right". And then, it never asked for anything ever again.

[ahtihn]

WhatsApp was the first messaging app I remember that didn't require a user account.

People already had the phone numbers of people they knew so they just had to install the app and could immediately chat with any of their contacts.

Compared to chat apps with usernames where you started with an empty contact list, the barrier to start using it was very low. It was basically a drop-in replacement for SMS. Group chat and free messages were the reason to switch.

[xandrius]

You're wrong that it's bad. Clearly it cannot be that bad if even your 80 yo grandma can get the gist of how to use it properly.

Can it be better? Probably. Does it need to be better? Clearly not.

[IshKebab]

The UX is pretty good. At least as good as any competitor. There are no ads. It's cross-platform. It's secure. Group chats work.

WhatsApp gained dominance when the alternatives were still SMS and BBM! You don't have to resort to ego-boosting put-downs to explain why it is so popular.

[abenga]

Whatsapp has absolutely taken over communication in the world (aside from the US for some reason)? Funerals, trips, fund-raisers, even interacting with businesses is now done on WhatsApp in my country. When briefly I decided to try to de-Meta my life, I found that it was one service I absolutely cannot do without and still function as a member of my family and community.

[krick]

Network effects are network effects. I really feel physical disgust and try to keep it off my devices, but while it's feasible when living normal, uh, "no-lifer" life, it's unfortunately basically impossible when I travel or even just participate in local communities (sports, hobbies, etc). In the latter case, it's simply rude and disorganizing to refuse to join the group chat, in the former case it's often the only way to contact hotel/taxi/whoever you urgently need to contact in some not so touristy spot. (And, BTW, it's designed to be practically unusable, if you don't allow it to access your contact book, so no dirty tricks like that will fly.)

As to "how do they even manage to use it", well, the mere notion of a great UI is vastly overhyped in the first place (by designers themselves, most of all). People get used to just about anything, if they are taught to use it. And learning a 5-step sequence to use any app like this — anybody can do that, even a 85 year old (even if they swear they can't).

[berkes]

It's really a demographic issue. I've found that in the US relatively few people use WA. Same for SEA. But in western Europe almost everything is done on WA.

From "neighborhoodwatch" via "the school information" to "colleagues". Hell, even governments and public transportation have "feel unsafe? message us on whatsapp 06..." In the Netherlands it's truly omnipresent, and without WA you will be left out socially.

I'm reluctant of WA, because I'm steering clear of Meta as much as possible, but I do use it to: keep in touch with at least 26 social groups - friends, family, colleagues, co-workers, business - keep in touch with my date/love, my mother, and father who lives across the world.

granted, there's a big move going towards signal lately - finally. But I'm not sure how big this really is, and how sticky it will prove. Nor if this is just my bubble or truly across the whole country.

[jeroenhd]

Even within the Netherlands there are pockets of Signal users, Telegram users, and in rare occasions even people using SMS or iMessage. Facebook Messenger also has a foothold in some circles.

That said, you'd be an outlier if you have a mobile phone but no WhatsApp. Everyone has WhatsApp, but fortunately not everyone is using it for everything. Unfortunately, that usually means using an even less secure and trustworthy messenger service.

[mrweasel]

Some people I know seems to be more split between Snapchat, Instagram and Facebook Messenger. I don't see anyone being 99% in one app, and certainly not WhatsApp. I think I know like three people who use WhatsApp privately.

I do know people working in sales and purchasing and I wouldn't be surprised if they had 25% or more of their professional lives in WhatsApp. Previously they used Skype heavily. So this could be interesting for them.

[ryzor]

In South Africa, without WhatsApp you are literally cutoff from communication, so for us it is more like 99.99%

[joseda-hg]

Certainly not the case for me, but I reckon I could do plenty via whatsapp

- Group Chat for the family (Immediate, Extended Mother Side, Extended Father Side)

- Chat with hole in the wall restaurant to order sometinhg to eat after work

- 2FA for local shop

- Customer Support for local bank

- Work Chat (Informally assigned tasks and general info)

- Chat with Taxi

- Delivery Tracking for local courier

- LLM wrapper

- Invoice/Receipt Sending

- Appointments for many services (Like barbers)

I could more or less do anything, from work related task management, to requesting a new credit card from inside whatsapp

[anonzzzies]

I have 99% of my life is in Telegram; I like the choice between end to end encryption or not (for unimportant stuff) so I create private groups for everything and just toss everything in there. I have a (custom) LLM bot which does stuff depending what the group is about and what is posted. Telegram is very fast and convenient (yes, because it's not all encrypted, just the stuff you want to be).

[lharries]

For most people, their life isn't stored in neat Notion database.

Instead, if you have calendar + email + their main messaging apps (e.g. WhatsApp) you cover the majority of it. It's messy and unstructured — but luckily LLMs are great at that

[Explore4526]

WhatsApp is a mandatory app in India

[cvladan]

Exactly