[eapressoandcats]

So… people have literally already been deported to jails in El Salvador without due process, with the government claiming that they are from a Venezuelan gang. Others have had green cards revoked and been arrested for deportation for the crime of criticizing Israel. At this point it’s hard to see how worrying about a lack of habeus corpus is an exaggeration.

[kcplate]

Detention without bail for the duration of their due process is legal for certain crimes (actually I believe it’s even mandatory) that a non-citizen is accused of in the INA. There also does not appear to be any language in the INA that specifies detention has to be within the US borders either.

[eapressoandcats]

For the most part none of the people deported or held have even been accused of one of those crimes.

Most of the Venezuelans have been deported under the Alien Enemies Act, under an extremely tenuous reading of what an “invasion” is, by claiming they are members of a gang which is “invading” the country. If they can read the law this way then it’s not clear we have rule of law anymore. Anyway, the only court case testing this law didn’t turn on determining whether the members were factually members of the class. In this case there are serious questions about whether the people deported were actually members of the gang. Even in WWII relevant nationality individuals went before a civilian board to determine if they were of the nationality to deport.

The people being disappeared from colleges are being held and deported under the theory that they “pose a threat” to the United States, based on the Secretary of State making that determination, which again, not really due process. They are also being whisked to a more favorable circuit for their habeus petitions, which is pretty suspect.

Arguably maybe citizens will be afforded an actual appearance before a judge, but remember that they can just claim you’re a member of a Venezuelan gang and whisk you away. And once you’re gone how do you prove otherwise?

As far as being within US borders, that’s a strange argument given that no statute requires imprisonment within the US borders… I guess it’s legally untested but it seems insane to me that detention could be allowed to be under non-US custody. Among other things, that would move those detained literally outside of US jurisdiction. I don’t think it’s been done outside of espionage situations of dubious legality with people not resident in the US. Even the Guantanamo bay prisoners were under US jurisdiction.

[AlotOfReading]

International detention is a pretty straightforward violation of article 13 of the ICCPR, which the us is a signatory to. It's probably also a violation of the due process clause, because the Constitution only applies to non-citizens within the sovereign territory of the US as determined during the Guantanamo bay decisions.

[sirtaj]

Assuming they are allowed lawyers, I suppose the lawyers have to fly to El Salvador too? When they are brought before judges, are the judges going to be in El Salvador?

[kcplate]

I’m not suggesting that it’s efficient. I’m suggesting that it’s apparently legal at least on its face.

[AlecSchueler]

Why did the court order against it if this is so clear?

[kcplate]

Government often tests the boundaries or clarity of a law by taking an action they believe is a valid interpretation of it assuming there is no court or SCOTUS direct ruling on the subject to clarify. Lower courts may intervene, and ultimately SCOTUS decides and sometimes overrides the lower courts.

Just because a judge has a different opinion doesn’t mean they are right. Just like the government’s interpretation might be wrong.

The government is testing boundaries here…soon laws will be clarified and those boundaries will be determined. In the interim the theater aspect of all of this has an effect to discourage illegal immigration and encourage self deportation.

[AlecSchueler]

I'm not saying the judges are right, just that it's not so obviously legal if the courts are raising questions about it and if there's a process being initiated to seek clarifications.

> In the interim the theater aspect of all of this has an effect to discourage illegal immigration and encourage self deportation.

Also legal immigration as they've revoked green cards from people who emigrated legally and some of those people have apparently been "disappeared." It's not about "illegals" and it's dangerous at this point to continue spreading this misinformation.

[petre]

Quick, name a former European state that was deporting people without due process in the previous century.