[Argonaut998]

I’m trying to move there. And that is a hyperbole. It’s a tiny amount of cases being reported by the media as being de facto what’s happening.

It’s the same with all of the so-called travel warnings issued by some Western countries. The “warnings” were literally just to have your paperwork in order I.e., obey the law and don’t overstay your visa. It’s far more strict than previous admins but certainly nothing that would deter me from moving there (just yet) at least.

I don’t think Americans have any idea how good they have it under any administration, especially if they are in tech. The lauded benefits of Europe are grossly exaggerated for the most part.

[ajross]

> obey the law and don’t overstay your visa

Khalil and Ozturk broke zero laws and had permanent residency. They are now in jail essentially forever simply because the administration doesn't like what they were saying.

[Argonaut998]

Agree completely. I was referring more about entry to the US in the first place.

I suppose the current admin doesn’t believe the first amendment applies to non-citizens. I think I saw that judges are trying to block it. Do they have a point? Does the second amendment apply for non-citizens?

[DiogenesKynikos]

The entire Bill of Rights (the first 10 amendments) applies to everyone, not just citizens.

The Bill of Rights never mentions citizens. It was formulated as a set of restrictions on what the federal government is allowed to do. The government shall not censor opinions. The government shall not establish a national religion. The government shall not jail anyone without due process. And so on. The Bill of Rights doesn't contain any clause like, "... except for non-citizens."

What Trump is trying to do flies in the face of more than two centuries of Constitutional practice.

[ajross]

Honestly, and cynically: it doesn't matter at this point. You can't put that genie back in the bottle. We can now take political prisoners in the US, and it won't stop at these two. Realistically it won't stop with this administration. The tools are too useful and too tempting.

[throwaway173738]

Tiny is not zero. Our founding fathers believed that it was better for guilty people to go free than for one innocent to be detained.

[Argonaut998]

Well it depends on what you are referring to. If it’s people not being allowed into the US for various reasons I don’t think that has anything to do with the constitution. But yeah obviously these people being rounded up and being sent to Ecuador and whatnot definitely seems to fly in the face of the founding fathers