[jeff_carr]

> This whole thing seems like a big pyramid scheme.

That's because his scam of charging $8k over the price of a Tesla for "self driving" was complete vaporware. It never worked and it never was going to work. I am disappointed I fell for it.

There should be a class action lawsuit against TESLA for everyone that purchased the $8k self driving "feature". We were all told it was "being rolled out". It was a total lie.

[geertj]

You must not have tried FSD 13.x with AI4 hardware. I commute to work every day from the suburbs to the city with a ~25 min one-way commute with zero disengagements.

Edit: Elon mentioned in the last earnings call that if you are on AI3 hardware and bought FSD that they will have to upgrade you free of charge to AI4.

Edit 2: To clarify, FSD 13.x is only available with AI4 hardware.

[lukevp]

They started selling FSD back in like 2017 and it was supposed to be self-driving ALL THE TIME by 2019. It’s 8 years later now and the best you’ve got is “upgrade the hardware to version 4 and you can make a 25 mile commute without disengagement” when Tesla was promising cross-continent summoning so you could fly somewhere and your car would drive there to meet you, charging along the way. That’s L5 autonomy. The delta between promised and delivered is so far apart it’s ridiculous. Mercedes’ autonomous system is the only L3 even, Tesla’s is L2. They by my definition did not deliver whatsoever on their promises.

Another thing is a lot of people don’t even keep cars longer than 8 years (and people who are buying new, $100k electric cars are more likely going to upgrade sooner than someone who’s buying a $30k civic.) they paid for FSD thinking it would be ready soon.

[baggachipz]

I was intent on keeping my low-vin release day Model 3 until they made good on their FSD promise, come hell or high water. Then The Salute and The Infomercial happened, and I gave up and ditched the car like a psycho girlfriend. They got my money and I was fooled by a con. I'll never let that happen again.

[onemoresoop]

You sold it though or did you literally ditch it?

[baggachipz]

Sold it to Carvana. Picked up a newer used Audi for the same price.

[rage4774]

You ask for a friend, to „just look at it“?

[geertj]

I was replying to the "never was going to work" part

> It never worked and it never was going to work.

That is evidently false. If I had a longer commute it would work fine too. I have done ~2 hour road trips with it already.

You are bringing up a different point, which is that FSD arrived later than promised or at least implied (I don't know exactly how this was sold in 2017). That is self-evident at this point.

[itsoktocry]

It hasn't arrived at all.

[iamtheworstdev]

> Edit: Elon mentioned in the last earnings call that if you are on AI3 hardware and bought FSD that they will have to upgrade you free of charge to AI4.

Unfortunately, that's because they were sued in court and lost when they tried to force people to buy the upgraded hardware in the past. Not because they stand behind their products.

[consteval]

I would not be comfortable using any self-driving system on US roads that only utilizes computer vision.

The reality is we don't actually know how reliable these systems are, and Tesla has a long history of spreading misinformation about their own technology and obfuscating the facts. We don't even know how many cars crash while in FSD mode. We don't know how they crash, or why. None of this data is made publicly available, and of the data that is shared it is carefully curated, and we have no guarantee the data is not fudged. For example, are we certain that FSD does not disengage itself in dangerous circumstances to skew statistics in it's favor?

Trusting Tesla marketing on the topic of Tesla products is like trusting any kind of marketing. They have an incentive to sell the car, so they will lie, and they will cheat.

[threetonesun]

I am equally uncomfortable that other people are out there beta testing FSD.

[geertj]

> I am equally uncomfortable that other people are out there beta testing FSD.

That is probably because you are unaware how far it has gotten. Irrespective of that, a driver still needs to be there and pay attention. As soon as you take your eyes of the road for a few seconds it will warn you very prominently.

I'm going on the record here to say that FSD will be a better driver than 99% of humans in the next 2 years. I may be wrong, but I don't think I will be.

[chabes]

In this economy?

[nemothekid]

>Edit: Elon mentioned in the last earnings call that if you are on AI3 hardware and bought FSD that they will have to upgrade you free of charge to AI4.

AFAIK a retrofit from AI3 to AI4 isn't possible.