[NeutralForest]

I can understand the sentiment somewhat. It's another layer of complexity and it makes working on projects more difficult. The fact pip or mypy code is all Python makes it much easier to interact with and patch if needed.

You can also write Cython for more perf oriented code but I can totally understand the value Rust brings to the table, it's just now another language you'll need to know or learn, more layers like maturin or pyO3, while cffi is just there.

All the tooling coming from astral is amazing and I use it everyday but I can see the increasing complexity of our toolchains, not in ergonomics (it's much better now) but the tools themselves.

[biorach]

> he fact pip or mypy code is all Python makes it much easier to interact with and patch if needed

But how often in your career have you actually done this?

[mvieira38]

Agree, this only seems like a problem for the vast minority that are developing developer tools. And, to be honest, they got themselves in this situation due to a skill issue, too, Astral is just stomping the existing tools with better ergonomics and speed.

[NeutralForest]

I'm not doing that but I'm not developing developer tooling either. I can go read mypy code though!

[biorach]

You can read uv code too. Rust isn't that hard to read a lot of the time

[skeledrew]

I haven't done much patching myself, but I've done it enough times to really appreciate having the capability when I do want to do it. It's one of the reasons why I have a huge preference for Python: its flexibility.

[zahlman]

I've been doing it recently as part of diagnosing Pip's performance issues.