[bluefirebrand]

Honestly, this is my experience too

I started playing D&D in the 90s, before 3e even was out. For me, D&D and other TTRPGs are basically an excuse to hang out with friends. I treat it like a board game night. I've sometimes heard this called "Beer and Pretzels D&D"

I don't find many people who want to play Beer and Pretzels D&D anymore. When I go to public meetups or game stores meetups I find the groups are not casual at all. There is a heavy focus on staying in character and roleplaying over just having a good time.

The absolute worst version of this are people who seem to want to treat it like a therapy session. They genuinely seem to be trying to work through personal problems through their characters. I understand the desire to explore things in a "safe space" like an RPG but to me it's such an inappropriate venue for that sort of thing.

I would love to have an in-person RPG group again but as a hobby it really seems to have shifted from "mostly average people with slightly poor socialization" to "mostly the weirdest and most asocial people you have ever met"

[pavel_lishin]

> There is a heavy focus on staying in character and roleplaying over just having a good time.

For some people, that is having a good time! Most of the games I'm in, I'm significatnly more interested in the stor & characters than combat, etc. (Although, yeah, we do chat & have beers, etc.)

> The absolute worst version of this are people who seem to want to treat it like a therapy session. They genuinely seem to be trying to work through personal problems through their characters. I understand the desire to explore things in a "safe space" like an RPG but to me it's such an inappropriate venue for that sort of thing.

I think it's totally fine, as long as everyone at the table is fine with it. A session zero is definitely a requirement to play D&D, imo.

[bluefirebrand]

> Most of the games I'm in, I'm significatnly more interested in the stor & characters than combat

I'm not talking about "prefers roleplay over combat". I'm talking about "gets angry if you break character and make meta-comments about the game"

> A session zero is definitely a requirement to play D&D, imo.

It shouldn't be, but unfortunately we can't seem to trust the general RPG community to not be inappropriate weirdos without stating explicit rules and expectations for behavior

If someone comes to your house party and shits on the floor you don't invite them back. No need to create a rule saying "don't shit on the floor" that all guests need to agree to next time there is a party

Not sure why TTRPGs are different

[pavel_lishin]

> I'm not talking about "prefers roleplay over combat". I'm talking about "gets angry if you break character and make meta-comments about the game"

Oh yeah, that's annoying. I'd leave that game.

> It shouldn't be, but unfortunately we can't seem to trust the general RPG community to not be inappropriate weirdos without stating explicit rules and expectations for behavior > If someone comes to your house party and shits on the floor you don't invite them back. No need to create a rule saying "don't shit on the floor" that all guests need to agree to next time there is a party

I don't think I agree with this characterization. Of course there are baseline rules for living in a society, but a session zero is for more than reminding players that they cannot fucking make sexual innuendos directed at the only woman at the table - it's for making sure everyone is aware of the style of game played, and to make sure it's the right game for them.

Some people might want a hack-and-slash through a dungeon, cycling through characters as they get fed into the meatgrinder. Some people might want a game of court intrigue. Some people want high-magic, some people want low-magic. Some people want to explore something from their personal life and treat the game seriously, while others want a light-hearted game.

To go back to the party analogy you brought up, of course nobody is allowed to shit on the floor, but if I'm being invited to a party, I would very much like to find out if it's a frat party, or fancy cocktails, or a child's 3rd birthday. I might bow out of an invitation if it's not something I want to attend.

[bluefirebrand]

This honestly strikes me as a sort of motte and bailey argument

At first we were talking about Session 0 as setting guidelines for what behavior is appropriate

Now you are saying that Session 0 is more about setting expectations of what kind of game is being run

These two topics really don't overlap much because it is equally inappropriate to shit on the floor at a frat party as it is a childs third birthday party

The problem in the RPG space is that there are a lot of weirdos in the community who really want to shit on the floor every chance they get

Edit: And yes of course session 0 can be for multiple things. It's where expectations are set about the sort of game being run, house rules, appropriate behavior, etc

My point is more about how tedious it is to constantly have to remind people that shitting on the floor is not appropriate, because somehow many people in the RPG community have the idea that everything is allowed in these sorts of games, rather than assuming a baseline of social contract is still at play even if we are playing an imaginary game

Essentially what I'm saying that players should assume most weird stuff is off limits unless explicitly allowed in the Session 0. What I see instead is often that players assume everything is allowed unless explicitly disallowed by the Session 0. I think that's the wrong attitude

[pavel_lishin]

> Now you are saying that Session 0 is more about setting expectations of what kind of game is being run

Yes, because different behaviors are appropriate for some games, and not others.

> The problem in the RPG space is that there are a lot of weirdos in the community who really want to shit on the floor every chance they get

Won't argue with you there, and definitely agree with you that some people in the space just have no concept of a social contract - or at least, their concept is so warped that they're impossible to play with.