[anon743448]

What I find fascinating is that people seeking their roots and historical family tree always stay within their religion.

Almost all Muslim Pakistanis and Christian Indians somehow trace their family tree back to Middle East during the time period of their prophets. Many times it is obvious that even if they have any middle eastern DNA, it is negligible compared to rest of it. Why not learn about your ancestors who were not of same religion as you.

And why stop at 1400 or 2000 years back. Why not trace it further back.

And in the west, with superiority complex of European culture, many serious Christians get absolutely confused when you tell them that it is amazing how a middle eastern religion took over the entire Europe and the west. Some people even deny that Christianity is middle eastern.

[Reasoning]

> ...Christians get absolutely confused when you tell them that it is amazing how a middle eastern religion took over the entire Europe and the west. Some people even deny that Christianity is middle eastern

Many atheists make this claim but I've never met one of these Christians in my life. At least in my experience Judaism and Middle Eastern history were taught as part of my religious tutoring.

[spiderfarmer]

Luckily, christianity is very much on it’s way out in Europe:

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/03/23/15/4A789846000...

[alchemist1e9]

Why do you see it as lucky? Has it been a negative influence on Europe?

[spiderfarmer]

It’s difficult to measure religion’s overall impact, since it has had both positive and negative effects, and I’m not interested in engaging in speculative “what if” scenarios. From my perspective, moving beyond a singular religious influence has been beneficial because it allows individuals and communities to develop norms and policies based on wide-ranging human needs and evidence-based reasoning rather than strict dogma.

If you believe a particular group is inherently superior and that anyone can join it simply by following arbitrary rules, then our discussion ends here. Such a view indicates an unwillingness to seriously consider broader philosophical questions.

[lukan]

Christianity as a individual religion maybe not, but christianity as a state religion, controlling all debates, power structures and research very much was a negative influence, stopping progress in Europe for centuries, until their powerhold could get broken.

[slashdev]

Or unluckily. Europe has Christian roots, values, and dreams. Cutting that out without also destroying or transmuting Europe is not necessarily possible.

It seems to me that the rise of woke ideology is an attempt to replace a religion sized hole in the fabric of society.

That objection aside, Europe is well below replacement birth rates. Should that continue, it will be replaced by cultures which reproduce. Is religion required for that? Maybe

[spiderfarmer]

In a society less influenced by religion, you might not be as concerned with these particular issues. Many secular countries, for example, demonstrate strong overall well-being and social outcomes, suggesting that emphasizing shared human values over religious or cultural divisions can benefit society as a whole. Rather than prioritizing one specific group, focusing on the common good can lead to more equitable solutions for everyone.

[slashdev]

Equitable is a terrible goal. Taken to extremes, it's communism. Where everyone ends up equally poor.

It's a noble goal and idea in theory, but put into practice it causes great misery and poverty.

Because fundamentally it's at odds with reality. People are not equal, and do not bring equal value to the table. For a system of organizing a society and economy to be successful, it has to acknowledge that and empower the out-performers, who then pull everyone else along for the ride.

[spiderfarmer]

> Equitable is a terrible goal. Taken to extremes, it's communism. Where everyone ends up equally poor.

How you go from a society that focuses on the common good to communism is beyond me. One is a moral goal, the other is a form of government. Most Christians in this thread boast that they are somehow morally superior. I guess not.

> It's a noble goal and idea in theory, but put into practice it causes great misery and poverty.

Again. The secular countries are all doing much better than the USA and that gap is getting wider rapidly. Why are you denying obvious truths?

> Because fundamentally it's at odds with reality. People are not equal.

Ah. There you have it. You somehow feel superior to the people around you and think that if we take care of "underperformers", it somehow disadvantages you.

I just argue that we should take care of people who aren't able to bring value to the table (anymore). And that is a net benefit to society. Less crime, less suffering, better life expectancy, more social mobility. Basically every index where the US is underperforming, reflects societal efforts to care about the poor.

Again. Where are your superior christian morals?

> For a system of organizing a society and economy to be successful, it has to acknowledge that and empower the out-performers, who then pull everyone else along for the ride.

Nothing about a secular government is incompatible with capitalism, as long as the government takes their job as a regulator seriously, which hasn't been the case in the US for a long time.

But other countries do way better. Deal with it.

[slashdev]

You seem triggered. You’re attacking me and assuming lots of things.

I’m secular and don’t live in the US.

Europe is struggling economically, having been left in the dust by the US in the last decade. On top of this it is suffering major societal problems with the influx of refugees. Essentially being conquered by religious zealots from the Middle East who don’t share and don’t care for their values.

I’m completely onboard with having good social programs that make society more fair, but the model demonstrated by Europe is not clearly a success - in fact it appears to be slowly dying.

Deal with it.

[amanaplanacanal]

Not sure what you mean by "woke ideology", but following the message of Jesus about loving thy neighbor as thyself seems to lead directly to it.

[lukan]

"Some people even deny that Christianity is middle eastern."

Not really that many. Basically only some Nazi "christians" and they are not a thing anymore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Christians_(movement)