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by yusufozkan 494 days ago
Are you sure you are using the new 4o image generation?

https://imgur.com/a/wGkBa0v

3 comments

That is an unexpectedly literal definition of "full glass".
That's the point. With the old models they all failed to produce a wine glass that is completley to the brim full. Because you can't find that a lot in the data they used for training.
Imagine if they just actually trained the model on a bunch of photographs of a full glass of wine, knowing of this litmus test
I obviously have no idea if they added real or synthetic data to the training set specifically regarding the full-to-the-brim wineglass test, but I fully expect that this prompt is now compromised in the sense that because it is being discussed in the public sphere, it's has inherently become part of the test suite.

Remember the old internet adage that the fastest way to get a correct answer online is to post an incorrect one? I'm not entirely convinced this type of iterative gap finding and filling is really much different than natural human learning behavior.

> I'm not entirely convinced this type of iterative gap finding and filling is really much different than natural human learning behavior.

Take some artisan, I'll go with a barber. The human person is not the best of the best, but still a capable barber, who can implement several styles on any head you throw at them. A client comes, describes certain style they want. The barber is not sure how to implement such a style, consults with master barber beside, that barber describes the technique required for that particular style, our barber in question comes and implements that style. Probably not perfectly as they need to train their mind-body coordination a bit, but the cut is good enough that the client is happy.

There was no traditional training with "gap finding and filling" involved. The artisan already possessed core skill and knowledge required, was filled on the particulars of their task at hand and successfully implemented the task. There was no looking at examples of finished work, no looking at example of process, no iterative learning by redoing the task a bunch of times.

So no, human learning, at least advanced human learning, is very much different from these techniques. Not that they are not impressive on their own, but let's be real here.

overfitting vs generalizing

also we all know real people who fail to generalize, and overfit. copycats, potentially even with great skill, no creativity.

Humans don’t train on the entire contents of the Internet, so i’d wager that they do learn differently
I think there is a critical aspect of human visual learning which machine leanring cant replicate because it is prohibitively expensive. When we look at things as children we are not just looking at a single snapshot. When you stare at an object for a few seconds you have practically injested hundreds of slightly variated images of that object. This gets even more interesting when you take into account real world is moving all the time, so you are seeing so many things from so many angles. This is simply undoable with compute.
Even if they did, I’d assume the association of “full” and this correct representation would benefit other areas of the model. I.e., there could (/should?) be general improvement for prompts where objects have unusual adjectives.

So maybe training for litmus tests isn’t the worst strategy in the absence of another entire internet of training data…

A lot of other things are rare in datasets, let alone correctly labeled. Overturned cars (showing the underside), views from under the table, people walking on the ceiling with plausible upside down hair, clothes, and facial features etc etc
They still can't generate a watch that shows arbitrary times I believe, so it could be the case?
imagine!
I did coax the old models into doing it once (dall-e) but it was like a fun exercise in prompting. They definitely didn't want to.
The old models were doing it correct also.

There is no one correct way to interpert 'full'. If you go to a wine bar and ask for a full glass of wine, they'll probably interpert that as a double. But you could also interpert it the way a friend would at home, which is about 2-3cm from the rim.

Personally I would call a glass of wine filled to the brim 'overfilled', not 'full'.

I think you're missing the context everyone else has - this video is where the "AI can't draw a full glass of wine" meme got traction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=160F8F8mXlo

The prompts (some generated by ChatGPT itself, since it's instructing DALL-E behind the scenes) include phrases like "full to the brim" and "almost spilling over" that are not up to interpretation at all.

People were telling the models explicitly to fill it to the brim, and the models were still producing images where it was filled to approximately the half-way point.
Generating an image of a completely full glass of wine has been one of the popular limitations of image generators, the reason being neural networks struggling to generalise outside of their training data (there are almost no pictures on the internet of a glass "full" of wine). It seems they implemented some reasoning over images to overcome that.
I wonder if that has changed recently since this has become a litmus test.

Searching in my favorite search engine for "full glass of wine", without even scrolling, three of the images are of wine glasses filled to the brim.

Except this is correct in this context. None of existing Diffusion models could, apparently.
This is another cool example from their blog

https://imgur.com/a/Svfuuf5

Looks amazing,can you please also create a unconventional image like the clock at 2:35 , I tried it something like this with gemini when some redditor asked it and it failed so wondering if 4o does do it
I tried and it failed repeatedly (like actual error messages):

> It looks like there was an error when trying to generate the updated image of the clock showing 5:03. I wasn’t able to create it. If you’d like, you can try again by rephrasing or repeating the request.

A few times it did generate an image but it never showed the right time. It would frequently show 10:10 for instance.

If it tried and failed repeatedly, then it was prompting DALL-E, looking at the results, then prompting DALL-E again, not doing direct image generation.
So it's not doing what they are saying/ advertising, I think you are onto something big then
No... OpenAI said it was "rolling out". Not that it was "already rolled out to all users and all servers". Some people have access already, some people don't. Even people who have access don't have it consistently, since it seems to depend on which server processes your request.
I tried and while the clock it generated was very well done and high quality, it showed the time as the analog clock default of 10:10.
The problem now is we don't know if people mistake dall-e for the new multimodal gpt4o output, they really should've made that clearer.
I’m using 4o and it gets time wrong a decent chunk but doesn’t get anything else in the prompt incorrect. I asked for the clock to be 4:30 but got 10:10. OpenAI pro account.
Shouldn't reasoning make the clock work though.

Why does it sound like this isn't reasoning on images directly but rather just dall e as some other comment said , I will type the name of the person here (coder543)

Can you do this with the prompt of a cow jumping over the moon?

I can’t ever seem to get it to make the cow appear to be above the moon. Always literally covering it or to the side etc.

To be clear, that is DALL-E, not 4o image generation. (You can see the prompt that 4o generated to give to DALL-E.)
How can you see this? I don't see it.
On the web version, click on the image to make it larger. In the upper right corner, there is an (i) icon, which you can click to reveal the DALL-E prompt that GPT-4o generated.