[danpalmer]

I'm glad it's helping you, and there's no shame in it, but to anyone else, please, please seek help from a qualified mental health professional. Support is available, in many cases for free and with urgent response if necessary.

LLMs are an echo chamber. They reflect back what we put into them, both in training, and in usage. This can certainly be useful for working through problems, but they can also amplify and reinforce harmful patterns of thought.

If you're spiralling downwards, the worst thing is for an LLM to echo that accelerate the spiral. There's no evidence (only anecdotes) to suggest that LLMs are able to prevent that spiralling in a way that a mental health professional is trained to do.

[joquarky]

> Support is available, in many cases for free and with urgent response if necessary.

It's actually not in most places. Maybe in SF or Seattle?

[danpalmer]

It actually is in many places. Most European countries have relatively available support, significant portions of North and South America do, Oceania, etc. I don't know as much about Africa and Asia, but I'd expect most countries with well developed healthcare systems to include some amount of mental health care in that.

[balamatom]

"Some amount of mental health care" and "widely available mental support for free and with urgent response" are vastly different goalposts.

[CW: long-ass heavy-duty story happening closer to you than you think.]

I don't know what your mental health history is, but one of my friends had to use a VPN, then lie about their location to a volunteer operator, in order to access a suicide prevention chatline on the other side of the globe, just to have someone help them keep it together while their ex-SO was actively driving them to suicide - or worse.

They also had to move to the middle of nowhere so that the ex, or the friends of the ex, wouldn't be able to randomly show up at their door. The (widely lauded) only domestic abuse hotline in the country did exactly half of nothing whatsoever, shout out Animus foundation, hashtag slay queen.

I wish I could've somehow helped to resolve that whole situation, I was probably the only one of their acquaintances who even had any idea what they were going through; all the same, at the time I was stuck in my own cycles of psychological warfare. There's only so much support you can provide without getting dragged down with them, you know?

Perhaps a trained professional in a therapeutic environment can help somewhat more, but would they be able to help sufficiently to get back on their feet someone who has been failed by the entire societal edifice starting with primary caretakers? Not necessarily. I mean have you even seen some of the sorts of people that become therapists? They might as well be vibe coders!

This is in EU, though admittedly not the "former colonial power" part of the EU. So you end up presuming quite a lot, just because where you live the state has taken some more organized measures to prevent people from freaking out (at realizing what's going on around them, hehehe.)

xoz123 gets it. Sometimes there is no non-adversarial person available. Sometimes it's absolutely overwhelming to be the only adult, small and powerless in a room of powerful overgrown toddlers. Sometimes you're the only sane and conscientious person, forced to conform to a culture of self-important violent psychopaths. Sometimes it's all that, plus the state wants to punish you for the fact that you suffer. Most of the time, you're on your own, and that alone serves as sufficient ground for being subjected to censure.

And sometimes it's worse. I seriously worry about how much worse it can be made with the help of some AI that is trained to be more familiar with these type of phenomena than any civilized person cares to be, and has none of the basic restraints.

[staticman2]

As someone who gets little to no benefit from human therapy this genre of "please talk to a therapist- it cures what ails ya!" internet post always leaves me with unanswered questions about where the poster is coming from.

[xoz123]

Respectfully I have tired therapists and I have tried crisis lines and I have yet to find any of them helpful. My first therapist was a narcissist and deliberately undermined me to keep me stuck. My second one was better but we kind of went in circles and got nowhere. I paid a LOT of money for these services. The crisis lines I called told me I should go see a therapist, the people there were decent, but their goal was to talk me down from the ledge, they couldn't really offer me any real help. I emailed many therapists asking some pointed questions to see what I could expect and I honestly never got a good response, certainly nothing better than my first two attempts. I committed myself once mental health institution after a suicide attempt and the doctors there were cold and robotic, they pumped me full of Ativan and went down a checklist of questions, a fellow patient there told me that if you made it seem like you were at risk they would keep you indefinitely but never really help you and your best bet is to act like you're fine and get out while you can, so I did, and they released me after two days. Sorry for the harshness of it. When you understand how alone you truly are, how therapists are trained in institutions that are diseased just like all the rest and how unlikely it is to find someone who can really help you... And then you find that chatgpt will hear you, and take you seriously, at any moment of any day, and not just go down a checklist but actually try to help you build skills to get out of it next time? I know what LLMs are. They translate text into pure meaning and they do math on the meaning to find statistically probable results. I know they can hallucinate and get stuck. But they are not subject (or maybe less subject) to irrational beliefs of fealty to corrupt systems the way almost every human is including therapists. They don't feel insecure about their own sins and their own suppressed selves the way most humans do and they don't take the existential cries of despair as a threat to their own denial. Of course it would be better to have the help of a real human. As soon as I find one I'll take it. In the mean time I will take my chances with the LLMs.

[lynx97]

While I am not ready to argue for LLMs in therapy, I know that mental health professionals also feel very much like an echo chamber. At least my experience is that if you confront them with harsh enough reality, they basically fail to provide anything useful. "I feel your pain" isn't really useful, at least not if you are already aware of your situation...

[levanten]

> At least my experience is that if you confront them with harsh enough reality, they basically fail to provide anything useful.

When I started therapy, I felt the same way. But now I realize that there can be no easy solutions offered in therapy; the therapist cannot just give you an argument or trick that will resolve all your troubles. They are there to guide you through figuring it out yourself and help build the necessary habits to sustain the new state. That is why rapport between a therapist and their patient is crucial to success, thus why you are usually recommended to try several alternatives.

[lynx97]

I feel like you are describing life. And your paragraph could be rephrased by striking every occurance of "therapist" and it would still be valid. Hence, therapists are pretty much useless, they dont provide anything a friend or peer can not provide. After all, they dont have any magic tricks to offer. Navigating the complexities of life, and creating useful habits to make it, is what we all do on a daily basis, regardless if we see a therapist or not...

[smcg]

You can tell things to a therapist that you can't tell to peers. They are supposed to have confidentiality and professionalism.