[throwaway346434]

Oh, great re swimming pools - solar detection is another one on my list to have a go at.

I feel like a lot of the pushback here is an idea that OSM can grow from hand mapping; but as someone with 60k changesets over a decade... no amount of human volunteer enthusiasm is to the point that it can "solve" mapping at a global scale to the standards that make the map data overwhelmingly useful.

I feel we need a scalable framework for importing and maintaining data: ways to annotate the quality, sources, where to report bugs in the data source, and guidance to consumers. Ie if I want to query "businesses of type X" "mapped by humans within the last year", I can sort of do that with "check date".

But who knows how many of those attributes are accurate, or if the mapper who checked only checked one aspect (name/location)? Would it be better to ingest alltheplaces opening hours to maintain this data automatically, every month?

Would it be better as a data consumer if I could filter to only certain sources I trust? Or I could use data - even if the polygons aren't perfect or similar, even with known limitations like "poi inferred by AI".

[matkoniecz]

> Would it be better to ingest alltheplaces opening hours to maintain this data automatically, every month?

I am working on such project

See https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/what-you-think-about-i...

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mateusz%20Konieczny%20-%2...

https://codeberg.org/matkoniecz/list_how_openstreetmap_can_b...

[Freak_NL]

> Would it be better to ingest alltheplaces opening hours to maintain this data automatically, every month?

Alltheplaces plays dangerously loose with (also) using resources clearly marked as copyrighted and protected with an API-key. As it is that project can serve as inspiration, but it is incompatible with OpenStreetMap.

[matkoniecz]

Can you give any specific example?

I am currently working on project that would use ATP and I am vetting its spiders. So far I have not found any bad ones.

If you found one then knowing which one you mean would be highly useful!

(BTW, just marking something as copyrighted does not make it copyrighted)

[Freak_NL]

Why ask? An example was pointed out in this thread you started:

https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/what-you-think-about-i...

There are probably more spiders configured to do this.

> (BTW, just marking something as copyrighted does not make it copyrighted)

For OpenStreetMap, it means that at the very least the Licensing Working Group should have a look. When you combine a copyright claim with directly using a third-party API with an API-key without clearance from the owner, doubly so. This was already pointed out to you in that thread.

Currently, only spiders which directly use the websites and domains of the shop chain (or its owner) are cleared for use.

Take heed of what Andy Townsend from OpenStreetMap's Data Working Group wrote:

> OSM has traditionally avoided situations where it could be legally challenged by people with more money to pay lawyers than we have, even if, in a fair and balanced process OSM might actually be in the right; for the simple reason being that any legal cost could far outweigh other costs of runnng the project.

You are a senior mapper in our project. You know this.

[matkoniecz]

> Why ask? An example was pointed out in this thread you started:

Because I wanted to know is there any other known case.

> For OpenStreetMap, it means that at the very least the Licensing Working Group should have a look.

and they were asked about first-party sources, that is why I am looking through ATP to check whether specific spiders are using only first party-sources or not

> Currently, only spiders which directly use the websites and domains of the shop chain (or its owner) are cleared for use.

AFAIK this is not accurate - for example if they would host their data at github pages website without custom domain it does not change things

[cinntaile]

Solar might be problematic. How will you discern between a solar panel and a solar thermal collector? They look practically the same but their function is very different.