[acdha]

Environmentalists have been pushing wind, solar, etc. for the last half century. There are a few shortsighted people who oppose wind farms but they represent a large, complex multinational movement in the same way that any one of us represents the tech industry, which is to say not at all.

In many cases, if you look at the complainants it’s also reasonable to question whether they’re fully honest about their motivations. For example, the big Martha’s Vineyard project was backed by the biggest environmental group in the area but by the opposition were people like commercial fishermen and various rich cranks like RFK Jr. and the Kochs who thought the change in view would affect their property values but do not otherwise live lives full of obvious strong environmentalist views.

[renewiltord]

Environmentalists push renewables the way homelessness activists push housing: It’s a great idea if it is near no one, hurts no one’s views, impacts zero birds, affects zero animals, and is not built for profit by the rich.

I suppose I could use their terminology, though: responsibly sited, balancing conservation priorities, and protecting local communities.

I recall, in my college years, being told how Real Communism hadn’t been tried yet. It seems that Real Communism never did get tried and no matter who tries Communism they never try the good Real variety. After years of watching top environmental organizations repeatedly oppose nuclear power as a whole and renewables often, I think I have to say: Real Environmentalism Hasn’t Been Tried Yet. No True Environmentalist Would Do What These Guys Do.

[tfourb]

I am an „environmentalist“ and I’m in full and public Sport of the hundreds of windmills in clear view of my town and the solar on every new residential development, including my own house. As are all other „environmentalists“ I know.

[renewiltord]

I’m comfortable restricting my position to the US. Things may be different elsewhere, even in Canada.

[acdha]

If you’re going to make that kind of sweeping claim representing many different people and groups, I’m going to need to see some data. What you’re describing sounds more like the mechanism I described, where rich people use the language of environmentalism to make their NIMBY activities sound less venal but that’s saying that those specific people are hypocrites rather than a general commentary on the entire field.

[renewiltord]

What evidence would convince you? If I know the bar, I can see if it can be met.

[acdha]

Anything specific? You started with this claim that environmentalists are blocking wind farms for aesthetic reasons, where are some example projects and who’s blocking them? I gave one (Martha’s vineyard) but in that case the major environmental groups backed it while the opposition was either not in the field (e.g. commercial fishermen) or rich people using environmental language but pretty transparently arguing based on real estate values or politics, so my first question would be how large the overall environmental movement is and how representative these people are within it. If, say, you have Greenpeace pro and RFK Jr. and the Kochs con, it’s hard to say that environmentalists as a whole oppose it.