[acdha]

> Also, modern cars don't emit a significant amount of local pollution. Modern emissions control systems are extremely effective against everything except CO2

Go stand next to the exhaust on a “modern car” and say that with a straight face. Everything that you see, smell, and hear is pollution, and it’s really not hard to notice.

One other confound is that vehicle sizes have gone up massively: the car I bought in 2006 has equivalent or better smog ratings than the current non-EV best sellers I just checked because it’s not a truck/SUV and all of the extra weight/power comes at a cost. Yes, that’s a personal choice but if you live somewhere many people drive you’re breathing their choices.

[AnthonyMouse]

> Go stand next to the exhaust on a “modern car” and say that with a straight face. Everything that you see, smell, and hear is pollution, and it’s really not hard to notice.

Have you actually done this with recent cars? The exhaust doesn't really smell like anything once the emissions system is operating and that happens right away on newer cars with heated O2 senors and catalysts. Hybrids don't run the engine at idle or low speeds and might not run it at all at city speeds. Electric cars don't even have one.

> One other confound is that vehicle sizes have gone up massively

Particulate emissions are more related to the drivetrain than the vehicle weight, e.g. the Toyota Highlander Hybrid is a chunky beast but it's a "super ultra-low emissions vehicle" in the same category as the Prius or the Honda Insight.

[acdha]

> Have you actually done this with recent cars? The exhaust doesn't really smell like anything once the emissions system is operating and that happens right away on newer cars with heated O2 senors and catalysts.

Yes - I’m assuming earlier today counts - and it’s better but still quite noticeable. If you’re on a bike, you notice when you stop behind EVs and hybrids which are running on batteries because they are so much less smelly.

> Particulate emissions are more related to the drivetrain than the vehicle weight

This is true, but an awful lot of buyers avoid hybrids. I’d prefer it was otherwise as you’re quite right that it makes a nice benefit.

[AnthonyMouse]

> Yes - I’m assuming earlier today counts - and it’s better but still quite noticeable. If you’re on a bike, you notice when you stop behind EVs and hybrids which are running on batteries because they are so much less smelly.

Now I'm curious what year the car was. There are obviously still a lot of older cars on the road (and they don't always look much different, since the aerodynamics-dictated shape of cars has been the same for >20 years).

Meanwhile people have taken to complaining about tire wear because the tailpipe emissions have gotten so low that the tire wear is actually higher, now advertised as "tire wear is more polluting than exhaust" as if the tires have somehow gotten worse rather than the exhaust particulates having been reduced to near-zero.

I'm also curious if it was cold. Heated catalysts address the issue where emissions controls don't work well until the catalyst is warm, but they're not that prevalent yet.

> This is true, but an awful lot of buyers avoid hybrids. I’d prefer it was otherwise as you’re quite right that it makes a nice benefit.

It's kind of surprising that anybody buys anything else. The main drawback of EVs is still range and charge time, but hybrids don't have any of that. Two-car households that don't have one EV and one hybrid are generally making a mistake.

It's probably FUD. Hybrid transmissions are significantly more reliable with fewer wear parts than traditional transmissions, but a lot of mechanics will say they're "more complicated" (meaning only they don't have the relevant computer or haven't learned how to do it yet), or less charitably that they prefer the cars that get them paid for expensive transmission rebuilds more often. And the purchase price is slightly higher but you more than make it back in fuel costs so the TCO is lower. It's hard to come up with a reason to buy a non-hybrid ICE vehicle anymore.