[blackeyeblitzar]

Did they really break the law? I’m not a fan of Apple and their aggressive walled gardens and general hostility. But I feel like the tax optimization with Ireland is well known to everyone and wasn’t an issue until now. It seems dishonest to go back and demand retroactive taxes afterwards. And I bet they aren’t the only company in this situation so are they being singled out unfairly?

[randunel]

State aid to private companies is outright illegal in the EU. It's a matter of finding out how far back this continuous state aid goes to figure out the total.

You only get caught at the end of the illegal activity, but you're responsible for all of it.

My EU country has the concept of "done continuously" to any criminal code article, including tax evasion and all other provisions, and I'm pretty sure it's an EU-wide concept, where penalties go up by a percentage if the crimes were done continuously over a period of time. So breaking the law continuously also matters, not only at the time of getting caught.

What I don't agree with is Apple getting fined. Apple needs to pay the proper taxes for the entire period of getting state aid, but Ireland should get the penalty for subsidising a private company, am infringement procedure should determine that.

[Sloowms]

They broke the law indeed. It was a legally untested tax structure that was found to be illegal all along. This also is not the first time the European courts have told member states to stop preferential treatment in tax deals.

It's funny that you say it was well known to everyone and also wasn't an issue. It was well known because precisely because it was an issue.

If a company and country are dishonest about the tax deals they illegally make it's pretty dishonest to call it dishonest to demand the taxes are back payed.

This ruling applies to all the illegal tax schemes European countries have been using. So there are definitely other companies getting the bill as well.

[seec]

It wasn't even well known until very late into the 2000s (even early 2010) when Apple actually started to make a lot of money and got a lot more scrutiny.

Because it is pretty simple, you don't really care about a struggling company or one that just gets by, even if their marginal tax rate is lower than it is supposed to be, since there isn't much to be taxed the difference is minimal in any case. However, if the company is extremely successful and makes big money the difference is absurd and it actually becomes unfair for everyone (both other companies who have to play by the rules, and citizens who get taxed more than a filthy rich corp).

And this is the real reason it "became" a problem and took a while to resolve. Had Apple stayed a relatively small company with small sales numbers in the EU (and thus small profits) the deal would have probably not have much scrutiny and even if it had, it probably wouldn't have gotten any focus. It would have cost more money in legislators time than it would have brought in anyway, even though the deal was fundamentally unfair. But life is generally unfair, so it doesn't matter that much.

[bigyabai]

> It seems dishonest to go back and demand retroactive taxes afterwards.

Quite the opposite. It would be an insult to law abiding companies if they didn't demand back taxes in exchange for market access.

[Braxton1980]

>Did they really break the law?

According to the EU's highest court they did and that's all that matters. I think you're trying to say that that if you or the US believes that the EU is wrong regardless of EU decisions the US is justified in attacking.

My original comment is pointing out that the current admin seems willing to bully other countries using international trade.

So the EU goes after US tech companies, US tech companies flock to Trump, Trump attacks the EU

[apwell23]

> According to the EU's highest court they did and that's all that matters

Its like saying Euros shouldn't be upset by american tariffs because they are legal per american laws and thats all that matters.

I still don't get why Euros are so freaking upset that USA decided it wants to operate differently. Why doesn't usa have that right.

edit: for butthurt euros calling me names below, Apple's claim is that The EU did not have specific rules in place prohibiting Ireland’s tax policies when Apple benefited from them. It even won its appeal on EU court in 2020 on that basis.

Its time for countries like India to claw back taxes that european companies didn't pay during colonization.

[randunel]

Your comment before you edited it was

> USA can makeup whatever laws it wants and apply them retroactively too

Which shows how little understanding you have of this topic. This isn't a new law, at all. The tax has always been owed, because state aid / state subsidy has always been illegal in the EU. No new law is being applied retroactively here.

A debt needs to be paid.

[Sloowms]

It's not a retroactive law. It's a law not being followed. If you decide to not file your taxes properly and need to pay all the tax you owe after getting found out the law did not change.

[Braxton1980]

> I still don't get why Euros are so freaking upset that USA decided it wants to operate differently. Why doesn't usa have that right.

Why doesn't the EU have the right to their tax rules and what their courts decide?

You're framing this as if the US is doing something that has nothing to do with the EU.

[apwell23]

i am talking about all the hilarious whining thats goin on over tarrifs and what not after they just genocided whole continents. Trump might be the biggest bufoon of all time but he is giving euros a little taste of their own medicine and its amazing to watch.

Euros need to accept their lower status in the world due to their economic decline. They are still hanging on to some racist colonial thinking they are still the top dog.

They are same as phillipines or bangladesh when it comes to relationship with USA. They don't get some special ally status bases on their racist ideas.

They will have to pay similar back taxes to former colonies soon now that they don't have big brother protecting them.

[bgnn]

Correct term is Europeans, not Euros.

I think you are ignorant about law in general and European institutions. European Court of Justice is established in 1952. European Economic Community is established in 1957. Ireland joined the European communities in 1972.

The court order is just, as Apple didn't pay fair amount of taxes from whole EU operations. This makes it an EU matter. They just need to pay their taxes.