[statictype]

when people use iPads they end up just using technology to consume things instead of making things. With a computer you can make things.

Absolutely true. A lot of people like to mock the position that the iPad is a 'device for consumption' whenever a new story comes out about someone creating a song or painting on his iPad.

Well, there's a reason why it's worthy of a news story. You don't see articles written whenever someone creates a song on his Mac or PC.

I love my iPad. It's a great consumption device. But its terrible for tinkering and creativity (and this limitation is by design). Let me know when I can design flyers and brochures from it. Or write a program on it to do something useful that can be shared with others.

[ryannielsen]

Well, there's a reason why it's worthy of a news story. You don't see articles written whenever someone creates a song on his Mac or PC.

That's a bit like saying, "you don't see articles written whenever someone creates a song on his piano or violin", back in the 50s or 60s. There was a time when computers weren't used to produce music, pictures, or movies.

Rather than lament the current state of new mobile platforms, why not celebrate these amazing new platforms? They're increasingly becoming creating rather than consuming platforms and, even if we will never easily create apps directly on them (which I don't believe is true), they're wonderful new distribution platforms.

Just because they're not like the Apple ][s or C64s of yore doesn't mean it's the end of the hacking world. A new generation is growing up programming apps (yes, on their desktop computers right now) for this new world and can easily share their creations with millions. From where I'm sitting, this looks like a pretty interesting step forward.

(And for designing flyers and brochures on an iPad, you're welcome to use Pages or any number of other drawing or painting apps found on the App Store.)

[briandear]

I do all of my wire framing and app planning work exclusively on iPad. With the iPad, I can actually create content while sardined in the subway. These "consumption-only" folks are just parroting Microsoft-sponsored drivel.

[novalis]

Your wire framing and app planning work don't fall in the category of creating things that have never before existed and never been done before. That was the quoted line from Russell Kirsch. The MS line parroting, that is just defensive fanboy bait. But whatever rocks your boat. In any case, it is what it is, a consumption device.

Had you gone with being able to edit html, javascript and css on it, or even code and compile java on the AIDE app... but no, it was an attack that you had to counter with an anedoctal. It's like textbook dumbing down consumer bs galore over there. But the guy in the article, he gets to be the parrot...

[snowwrestler]

There is more to the act of creation than writing software.

[novalis]

I didn't establish that creation is circunscript to writing software. Had I mentioned writing music or editing video, that would be outside the scope of what the poster established to be the field of interest for the usage of the device in the anedoctal. It still would not make any difference to the point it would have contradicted the presented quote in the article. But thanks for the one liner and the down vote I see how what I did not say was probably confusing you.

[statictype]

There was a time when computers weren't used to produce music, pictures, or movies.

Yes, and we're at that state right now with tablets. Sure, we'll get there eventually but it won't happen by fooling ourselves into contentment by saying they are already great for producing creative work.

why not celebrate these amazing new platforms

I did say that I love my iPad. I've reached the point where I don't mind paying more for e-books that I can read on it than the dead-tree version that I have to lug around with me. I also use it extensively for mail, photos and browsing.

It may eventually become a tinkerer's device. It's not there yet though.

And for designing flyers and brochures on an iPad, you're welcome to use Pages or any number of other drawing or painting apps found on the App Store

They let me use my own fonts (possibly in other languages)? Or let me cut a photo and place it on a page?

The latter may not exist because no one has done it yet (ie, not a technical limitation). I'm pretty sure the former is a limitation of the platform rules that have been set.

Anyway, I don't really disagree with much of what you say. We will eventually reach a point where creating cool stuff on the iPad is the norm. But we're not there today.

[rimantas]

  > Or let me cut a photo and place it on a page?

How about trying just that? Or is playing no true scotsman just too much fun?

[statictype]

That wasn't rhetoric. I actually want an app that can do these three things:

1) Let me work with custom fonts

2) Let me import images and cut them and place them

3) Export the whole thing as pdf

(Bonus points for handling svg and clip art)

I have not found one that does. I didn't try Pages - I assume it's a word processing app like Word and not a page layout/design/typesetting app like In-Design.

Have you tried it? Does it let me do these things?

I've often toyed with the idea of writing it myself. But I stop at point (1) because loading custom fonts that don't ship as part of the app bundle doesn't seem to be supported by iOS. (And also because I tend to procrastinate)

[cwe]

I don't know about svg's, but Pages can do all of this stuff. It's not just a word processor, but a very good age layout tool. You might want to check it out before dismissing the iPad so quickly.

[statictype]

So, 7 seconds of Googling tells me that it will not work right at my first point[1].

Perhaps you should have read my requirements before mentioning Pages?

[1] http://www.theipadguide.com/faq/can-i-add-fonts-iwork-keynot... https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2387345?start=0&tst...

[tripzilch]

> A new generation is growing up programming apps (yes, on their desktop computers right now) for this new world and can easily share their creations with millions.

For Android, yeah.

Thing is, I'm teaching "creative computer stuff" (which includes programming) to kids at a volunteer centre. One of the kids came to me and wanted to know if I could help them build an app for their iPod Touch.

Turns out the costs of writing iDevice apps is quite prohibitive to most teenagers.

First, the SDK+simulator is only available for Macs running Mac OS X 10.5.4+, not just any "desktop computer" will do. That is a problem because the "Young Researcher's Centre" runs on donated PCs, most of them old WinXP office machines that are perfectly serviceable for most of our purposes. We never get Macs though (well one time a really ancient one, I doubt one could develop apps on it).

If you do have a Mac, apparently you can get the SDK/emulator for free, I think (Apple's site said "free!" a lot but kept on directing me to some page where I had to pay. I gave up when I found out it couldn't be done on a PC, anyway).

But then comes the next problem. Your app just runs on the simulator. You need to join the "iOS Developer Program" in order to actually run it on a real iDevice, unless you jailbreak it, (which I'm not going to teach the kids mainly because I don't want to be responsible if they accidentally brick it).

The iOS Developer Program costs $99 per year.

Trust me, no kid is going through all that trouble just to have "something that looks like an app running in a bloody simulator", there has to be some tangible end-result.

From there (Wikipedia) "applications can be distributed in three ways: through the App Store, through enterprise deployment to a company's employees only, and on an "Ad-hoc" basis to up to 100 iPhones."

IMO it is ridiculous to teach children a valuable skill (programming) merely in order to immediately sell their services/work on some App Store market. They're children, they need to learn and play--of course if they want to try and sell their apps it can be a valuable experience but it should not be the only reason or the only way. The first point is that you write code for the sheer thrill of having that kind of control over your own devices.

I'm not sure how the "enterprise" method works, but I doubt we'd be eligible.

So finally you're left with paying $99 yearly in order to liberate 100 iPhones so you can write your own code for them. Whoop-tee-doo. And I'm probably forgetting about a whole bunch of ways Apple can get in your way as you try to actually go this route.

Suffice to say, after having figured this out, most kids realized their next phone was going to run Android.

[primitur]

I think there's a missing area of creativity and tinkering in the iPad world, which gets seriously under-evaluated .. MUSIC MAKING.

The iPad is a fantastic creativity/tinkering machine for making music. Its not consumption, but Performance.

[keithpeter]

I've seen an electronic music group perform with some iPads used as controllers and others making sound directly, including modifying the sound of a cello. One chap was using a thinkpad with a games controller to be different I suppose...

http://www.bilensemble.co.uk/

And I've just spent a week in Yorkshire including a visit to Salts Mill. Hockney has an exhibition of some of his iPad paintings (projections) and some of the paintings he did using a graphics tablet on Photoshop. I actually liked the tablet/photoshop paintings more (composed of thin lines building shapes and shadings) than the iPad ones.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2012/jan/13/david-hockney-...

http://danielonphotography.wordpress.com/2009/06/23/daniel-h...

But I think that a 'direct manipulation' interface will allow creation in variety of media. I'm waiting for a notebook sized tablet with stylus input for an electronic moleskine.

[kitsune_]

I disagree. It's "fantastic" as a generic (midi) control panel (similar to the Lemur, for instance Touch OSC or Max/MSP). Of course, you could usually achieve the same thing with an old second-hand Behringer BCF-2000 (or BCR-2000). Bonus: You get motorized faders and real knobs that you can touch.

[primitur]

Well, I have 2 ipads and an iPhone which I use as a portable studio these days, jamming with my band .. and I use the iPads just like VST plugin hosts on my PC .. since I play keyboards in the band, its awesome! Plug in, fire up a few apps, and off we go .. a very, very versatile creativity machine. Beats the DAW by far!

[lloeki]

> MUSIC MAKING

like, you know, Gorillaz.

http://thefall.gorillaz.com

[kitsune_]

Yeah, made on the iPad. Mixed at Studio 13, London. Mastered at Abbey Road Studios, London. But yeah, totally made on the iPad.

[rimantas]

Wait, so before iPads everything was done on one device?

[kitsune_]

What are you getting at, if you don't mind me asking?

[thornofmight]

I hear this a lot. Why is the iPad such a great device for making music compared to say...a laptop?

[primitur]

Its simple: it just plain works. Pretty much, always. I plug in a MIDI keyboard and Controller, fire up a synth app, and off we go. Stable, sounds great (comparable by far with any PC plugin), and just plain works. I have two iPads and an iPhone in my studio rig now, plus a couple of Akai controllers (pads/keys/sliders/knobs), and as a portable action studio this configuration just rocks.

Plus, I don't have to have it sitting there, like I'm checking my email on stage. Hate that about laptop musicians, as if it is actually interesting to watch someone glow their face when I'm out at night and want to have fun, away from the office .. with the iPad form factor, at least, it lays flat and stays out of the way. And there is no QWERTY keyboard, so its not easy for someone to make the association "that guy must be writing an email onstage instead of making live music", and believe me that happens a lot with laptop musicians around my parts.

[rprasad]

Because...magic. And fairy dust. And nobody who uses a laptop could possibly be cool.

It's not a great device for making music. It's an adequate device mostly used by hipsters (and I use that term offensively) to look cool, sort of like how "writers" hang out in coffee shops using Macbook Pros (or various other expensive laptops, like Vaios) to "write" the next American Novel.

[kisielk]

as a musician, I disagree. The iPad makes for a great adaptable electronic instrument. The major feature of tablets is that they become the app you're running. This lets the designers of the various synths for the iPad experiment with interfaces like was never before possible. Check out some of the stuff that Jordan Rudess's Wizdom Music is putting out: http://www.wizdommusic.com/

Jordan Rudess isn't just anybody, he's one of the top keyboard players alive today. He's always experimented with alternative instrument interfaces and I think the fact that he's doing this on the iPad lends a lot to its credibility as a creative platform.

[benthumb]

I bought the ipad on a total whim and have been repaid many times over by the enjoyment it continues to provide. I'm an old-school musician from the days when sounds were 'etched' on analog tape and I can tell you that as far as I'm concerned, it is a GREAT device for making music and one that is only going to get better as software evolves to exploit the full potential of its touch panel.

I also recently took it to Poland for a month and used it to compile a hundred pages of typed and handwritten notes and video footage--all the while using it to navigate my way around the unfamiliar terrain. I keep being surprised by my little sidekick's range of uses and flexibility...

[simonbrown]

Vaios are expensive? They certainly don't come close to the cost of Macbook Pros.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-SVE1511M1EB-CEK-15-5-inch-Lapt... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-15-inch-MacBook-Graphics-GeFo...

They are UK products, couldn't find a reasonably sized VAIO on Amazon.com. The VAIO has lower specs, though.

[malenm]

As a huge technology fan (and moe. fan), I was ecstatic to get to witness the entire band perform live on iPads last year at moe.down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzVhVJaKexk

[statictype]

This is probably true. I've actually seen people making music with their iPad. This is one area where it probably does excel in producing work.

[jakem1331]

I agree...and Garage Band is the equivalent of a very low-level Pro Tools, if you will, and best of all, it's free. I do wish there was an easier way to sync tempos on the program but it's good enough for a basic user.

[rimantas]

  > But its terrible for tinkering and creativity (and this
  > limitation is by design)

Actually, limitations and constraints (by design or not) are very very good for creativity.

  > Let me know when I can design flyers and brochures from
  > it.

Pages (and the rest of iWork) was availabe on iPad for some time now.

[arethuza]

The artist David Hockney loves iPads so much that he actually has had his suits modified to include a suitable pocket - here is a video of him using an iPad to draw in a cafe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jabJKtqK0k

[drumdance]

I haven't tried it myself, but I've heard good things about Garage Band on the iPad, and also for editing simple videos.