[mackopes]

I'm not convinced that there is one generalised solution to sync engines. To make them truly performant at large scale, engineers need to have deep understanding of the underlying technology, their query performance, database, networking, and build a custom sync engine around their product and their data.

Abstracting all of this complexity away in one general tool/library and pretending that it will always work is snake oil. There are no shortcuts to building truly high quality product at a large scale.

[wim]

We've built a sync engine from scratch. Our app is a multiplayer "IDE" but for tasks/notes [1], so it's important to have a fast local first/office experience like other editors, and have changes sync in the background.

I definitely believe sync engines are the future as they make it so much easier to enable things like no-spinners browsing your data, optimistic rendering, offline use, real-time collaboration and so on.

I'm also not entirely convinced yet though that it's possible to get away with something that's not custom-built, or at least large parts of it. There were so many micro decisions and trade-offs going into the engine: what is the granularity of updates (characters, rows?) that we need and how does that affect the performance. Do we need a central server for things like permissions and real-time collaboration? If so do we want just deltas or also state snapshots for speedup. How much versioning do we need, what are implications of that? Is there end-to-end-encryption, how does that affect what the server can do. What kind of data structure is being synced, a simple list/map, or a graph with potential cycles? What kind of conflict resolution business logic do we need, where does that live?

It would be cool to have something general purpose so you don’t need to build any of this, but I wonder how much time it will save in practice. Maybe the answer really is to have all kinds of different sync engines to pick from and then you can decide whether it's worth the trade-off not having everything custom-built.

[1] https://thymer.com

[mentalgear]

Optimally, a sync engine would have the ability to be configed to have the best settings for the project (e.g. central server or completely decentralised). It'd be great if one engine would be so performant/configurable, but having a lot of sync engines to choose from for your project is the best alternative.

btw: excellent questions to ask / insights - about the same I also came across in my lo-fi ventures.

Would be great if someone could assemble all these questions in a "walkthrough" step-by-step interface and in the end, the user gets a list of the best matching engines.

Edit: Mh ... maybe something small enough to vibe code ... if someone is interested to help let me know!

[jdvh]

Completely decentralized is cool, but I think there are two key problems with it.

1) in a decentralized system who is responsible for backups? What happens when you restore from a backup?

2) in a decentralized system who sends push notifications and syncs with mobile devices?

I think that in an age of $5/mo cloud vms and free SSL having a single coordination server has all the advantages and none of the downsides.

[tonsky]

- You can have many sync engines

- Sync engines might only solve small and medium scale, that would be a huge win even without large scale

[thr0w]

> Abstracting all of this complexity away in one general tool/library and pretending that it will always work is snake oil.

Remember Meteor?

[xg15]

That might be true, but you might not have those engineers or they might be busy with higher-priority tasks:

> It’s also ill-advised to try to solve data sync while also working on a product. These problems require patience, thoroughness, and extensive testing. They can’t be rushed. And you already have a problem on your hands you don’t know how to solve: your product. Try solving both, fail at both.

Also, you might not have that "large scale" yet.

(I get that you could also make the opposite case, that the individual requirements for your product are so special that you cannot factor out any common behavior. I'd see that as a hypothesis to be tested.)