[tmoertel]

> Forming a union does not mean you are asking for anything, it means you are giving yourself protection to ask for things in the future without being fired.

The way I've always done it is that if I want something my employer won't give me, I find someone else who will and go work for them (or start my own company). What's wrong with that model?

[maleldil]

You might find yourself in a job market where that isn't possible.

[tmoertel]

Okay. If I'm in a job market where what I want isn't possible, what does that reality suggest about my demands, the market, and the people who ultimately set the prices in that market (i.e., the public)?

[Capricorn2481]

You're either for unions or not, in any job. So we could say the same thing about teachers.

But in reality, the job market is not necessarily a reflection of the market or demands. It can be a delayed reaction to false narratives. It can be meddling from people capitalizing on these narratives. Unions are good tools against this because they can negotiate with their actual value, not the "market"

[tmoertel]

But unions don't negotiate with their actual value; they negotiate by holding hostage the entire value chain in which their labor is a link. This results in the extraction of value from the public, who ultimately bear all such rents, and especially from displaced would-be employees, who the unions call “scabs” to justify denying them jobs.