[TrackerFF]

Call me hysteric, but I think if this is true - as described - it will be a slippery slope into much worse things.

If this is allowed, sooner than later the US will start to deny entry to all "undesirables", which translates to those that aren't 100% aligned with MAGA policies.

Just demand access to all phone data, run the data through some AI screening tool, which maps the data to some 2-D "desirability" scale.

Disagrees with Trump? No entry

Not opposed to LGBTQ topics? No entry

Reads too many left-leaning newspapers? No entry

And the list goes on.

I guess the (now at least 10 year old) tip still rings true: Travel with a burner phone, or some phone that you use minimally for anything other than travel.

[fuzzfactor]

A slippery slope I think describes it pretty well.

Right now it's an unflattering opinion of the current administration, being penalized without regard for the combined precedent of all previous administrations.

The kind of precedent that was within reach of all other US presidents from all parties continuously both before & after the Statue of Liberty got here, otherwise there wouldn't have been enough respect built in Europe for Liberty to be erected to begin with. It was obviously supposed to be a permanent icon representing the never-ending March of Freedom & Democracy, and only a real bozo could screw that up.

Yup, only an anti-American effort of some kind could drop the ball on that, and it's no accident.

What does it take before the same penalty applies for "lack of verifiable enthusiastic support of the current regime"?

Or "failure to make financial contributions to the party"?

Or even "providing insufficient information on associates who may not enthusiastically support the regime"?

[jeffbee]

It's not a slippery slope and if it was, you are at the bottom. It's more of a cliff and you already walked right off. ICE is kidnapping lawful residents and disappearing them to slave camps in the third world. Rogue U.S. Marshals deputies are occupying the premises of private businesses. The Secretary of Commerce is telling the public to buy shares of Tesla, on live TV. Reality has already hit bottom. If it feels like a slope, that is the unwillingness of people to admit it.

[wat10000]

It is, and we are pretty close to the bottom. Civil liberties folks have been calling it out for decades. Congress has delegated far too much power to the President. Trump is testing and sometimes exceeding the boundaries of his power, but most of this stuff is legal. The executive shouldn't be able to unilaterally slap tariffs on things, but it can. The law should spell out the criteria for foreigners to be allowed to enter the country, but instead we give the executive total discretion, and the executive has granted the individual agents total discretion.

It was pretty clear for a long time that this stuff was ripe for abuse, and the President's own choices were the only thing preventing it from being abused more than it was.

Well, you put a fundamentally terrible* and vindictive person in that office, and surprise, he abuses this power. One of his first acts in office in 2017 was to abuse his ability to unilaterally dictate which foreigners are allowed to enter the country, no surprise it's even worse now. Despite this, there has been pretty much zero serious advocacy for restraining the power of the executive.

*All US presidents are terrible to some degree or another, but normally it's "I know what's best for the country and I'm willing to kill for it." Which isn't great, but it's better than this.

[jeffbee]

I reject your petty libertarian whataboutism. Snatching a guy off the street and selling him to a slave labor camp in El Salvador is not in the same category as Congress delegating tariff decisions to the executive branch.

[wat10000]

My point is that the one enables the other. Congress gave the President tremendous power under the assumption that the President would use it wisely. Lots of people said, "but what if one day the President is a shithead?" They were ignored. Now the President is a shithead, and surprise surprise, all this power that was ripe for abuse is being abused.

This isn't whataboutism. It's pointing out why you don't give individuals huge amounts of power and hope they're cool.

[jeffbee]

It is. Your point is a non-point. Delegating tariff powers did not lead to the President kidnapping and selling lawful residents of America.

Delegating tariff authority to the executive: an arguably constitutional thing that Congress did deliberately and with due caution, which courts have gone along with.

Rendering lawful residents from U.S. soil to slave camps in foreign nations: no basis in statute or jurisprudence.

[wat10000]

Of course not. Delegating tariff powers led to the President enacting a bunch of stupid tariffs.

Delegating immigration rules is what led to the immigration abuses.

If Congress had refrained from delegating so much power to the executive, this particular executive would not be able to do so much terrible stuff. This is exactly why a lot of people said that it was a bad idea to do that, but Congress was content to assume that the President would wield this power wisely.

[freehorse]

Do people have experience traveling with burner phones to the US and how border control may treat them if they request them? Considering that border officers seem to be able to deny entry for arbitrary reasons despite visas acquired etc, and the fact that even requesting the unlock of one's phone signals suspicion from their part, I would be afraid to offer any more suspicion of hiding sth. Do people just use a brand new phone, or they try to make it look like it has been used for some time?

[kergonath]

> Do people have experience traveling with burner phones to the US and how border control may treat them if they request them?

I used to do that and luckily they never asked to unlock them. What will happen now is anyone’s guess, but it is very difficult to imagine that the current shambles won’t embolden power-tripping border cops. There are reports of tourists being held in chains and being held in detention for days.

> I would be afraid to offer any more suspicion of hiding sth

So would I, which is why I won’t be going to the US anytime soon. It’ll be a shame not to see my American friends.

Border protection officers have always had a lot of power. Before, there was an understanding that they would behave sensibly and everything was predictable: if you had a visa or a waiver, you were in. Now, who can say?

[bakuninsbart]

I've heard that not having any social media or none with any activity, is a red flag that might get you denied entry as well.

[Kim_Bruning]

Do you have sources for this?

[ty6853]

Not having a phone, or having a burner is even more suspicious, comrade. Remember CBP doesn't need a reason, they have jailed me before as a citizen without even an arrest. You have basically no rights at the border.

[breadwinner]

If you want to talk about slippery slopes the one that scares me most is deportation of what Trump calls "bad hombres" to prisons in El Salvador — without any due process. No matter how bad the "hombres", they must be given due process. Without that anyone that the president decides can be sent directly to prison.

[giraffe_lady]

Shit even this is downplaying how bad that is, and what a bad sign it is. This isn't deportation the way I think most people understand it, they weren't sent back to their original country or a place that recognizes them as nationals. The united states is selling people into slavery to an allied state.

[wat10000]

Pretty sure we're paying them, not the reverse, so we're just giving them slaves, and money.

[giraffe_lady]

I think simply considering it a pilot program resolves this apparent contradiction.

Another view is that one of the few idealogical commitments of this administration is global bullies doing favors for each other. It's not totally clear to me which direction the favor lies in this one, but I think both sides expect it to be returned at some point.

[wat10000]

I think it's a combination of cruelty and drinking their own kool-aid to an extent. They like hurting these people, and some of them probably believe to some extent that all of these people really are dangerous gang members. I doubt they care very much about who pays whom.

[blitzar]

Don't fight it ... it's going to be a handy precedent in 4 years time.

[giraffe_lady]

We don't need this vile tool, and it is extremely important that we not leave it functional for others to use, against us or against anyone.

Attacking the country to which you owe allegiance is a well-understood crime with normative punishments that we have used in living memory. We already have all the carceral tools we need to resolve this.

[alpaca128]

If this isn't fought, there will be no opponents left in the next election. See Turkey.

[wat10000]

No. These people need to be put on trial, not given summary justice. We managed to hold trials for top-level Nazis, we can do it here.

[whirlwin]

It's indeed a slippery slope. Ironically, USA, once the country of freedom of speech is becoming increasingly more reminiscent of the Soviet Union or China and their lack of freedom of speech.