[ModernMech]

Might I suggest this is a reflection of society as a whole? Politics is everywhere because nowhere is safe from politics, especially science these days.

We can't talk about science anymore because all the people working on it are worried about their jobs and lives instead of... well... doing science.

I appreciate wanting to come on HN and read about all the cool science-related articles without being troubled by politics too much. That stuff is weighty. It's nice to to just chill out and learn about cool things.

But we can't have those nice things anymore. Because faculty meetings are now spent talking about which words researchers have to avoid in our proposals because we don't want to be rejected by the government censors.

We used to talk about the cool things we would do for our students and our research plans. But now we are more worried about if we're even going to have jobs in 12 months. We are worried about our already-allocated funds being pulled.

We aren't talking about science anymore, because we have to talk about how to avoid being the next "transgender mice". We are dodging death threats if we trend on social media. We are losing our jobs. We are being detained at airports and denied entry to the US for holding anti Trump views. We are being deported from the country.

So I think your read on the situation is off; the interesting people are not retreating from nonstop anger cycles, they are under attack and not engaging in their typical behavior you find interesting. Instead of disengaging entirely, they need your support, so they can get back to doing cool things you find interesting.

[lolinder]

I work in education. I'm in those meetings you're talking about that are wrestling with these topics. I also live in Trump country in the Midwest and am living here in large part specifically to be an ambassador to help in my own small way to reduce the hatred that's fueling the fires. I'm as in the thick of it as anyone here, but I still come here for a reprieve and as that reprieve disappears in favor of nonstop rage I need to retreat.

HN is dying, and it's not dying to Trump. It's dying to the undirected rage that has infused every subthread, and that is something that's within our control even if Trump and his actions aren't. It's not useful, it's just an emotional drain that serves to further exhaust those who are best positioned to help and further polarize an already dangerously polarized world.

[ModernMech]

When communities are under attack, there really isn't a break though. Why do you think this rage exists? The fact it's here is not an indictment of HN and this community, it's an indication the rage has gotten out of control, and maybe we have to finally face it instead of seeking reprieve.

[lolinder]

Facing it in this way isn't helping, it's just cementing the battle lines that were already in place and furthering the polarization and hatred which got Trump elected in the first place. We're not getting anywhere by spiraling into despair and anger—the kind of discussion that's been HN's staple recently is just serving to persuade people that democracy was doomed to fail after all because 50% of people are ignorant and hateful.

[ModernMech]

I disagree -- it's more important than ever to talk about these topics in the few communities, like HN, where people on both sides of the battle lines actually intermingle.

[lolinder]

They don't intermingle any more. HN used to be a place for that kind of discussion, but it hasn't been that way in recent months. Perspectives that even sort of smell like they're right leaning get downvoted or flagged very quickly, leaving the discussion to be entirely a bunch of terrified left wingers resonating off each other, building their mutual fear and anger.

Something has shifted dramatically in the discourse the last two months, and HN isn't working the way it used to.

[ModernMech]

That's not my experience. If you look at my post history you'll see I've recently engaged in several long-winded back-and-forths with people here that have stayed civil and substantive. I don't find that in many other places, yet I still find it here.

I think one thing that has shifted dramatically in the last two months is that it's become clear many people who had a more moderated outlook on the current administration have turned out to be flat wrong about who these people are and what their intended course of action is. A "mask drop" moment. That's going to cause people to disengage, stick their hands, and even become irrationally angry.

Nonetheless I find this is still a place where you can talk to people on the "other side" in a rational way.

[bloomingkales]

No. Lines being drawn is fine. It's fine to see the faces painted exactly as they are. The Left actually doesn't need to win back any voter from the Right. They just need to passionately show the faces of those on the Right, and the larger demographic of the Left will emerge.

When you see the corruption allowing, greedy tax obsessed Republican, when you see their true face, it's the greatest rallying call for a blowout midterms.

Just cut the tall grass to see the critters in the field.