[dzhiurgis]

The problem isn't requirement of ID, but how hard is it to get an ID to begin with? It does seem to be almost uniquely US problem (even when 90% of voters are also drivers).

Given social security, where you are about to receive thousands of dollars in support while you are unemployed, why would a $100 ID matter? Like if you can't even pull up your pants and organize this key item of life, why should you receive support?

Voting is more interesting one. Supposedly better educated and better well off democratic voters aren't able to procure an ID? WTF I am reading?

[Volundr]

> Like if you can't even pull up your pants and organize this key item of life, why should you receive support?

How many social security recipients do you suppose are disabled? Are only those of sound body and mind deserving of the social security they've been paying into their whole lives?

[dzhiurgis]

Obvious solution is for social security offices to issue Id’s if they are capable. Other one is delegating most of the function to banks.

But otherwise perhaps inconveniencing 0.1% of cases shouldn’t dictate the rules.

IMO this is prime example of self destructing empathy Musk has been parroting about.

[Volundr]

> Obvious solution is for social security offices to issue Ids if they are capable.

I'm not sure what this solves, and as far as I'm aware it's not being done, so even if it's an "obvious solution" it's a moot point.

> Other one is delegating most of the function to banks.

Again I don't know what this means.

> IMO this is prime example of self destructing empathy Musk has been parroting about.

I'd say the opposite. We are talking inconveniencing everyone on social security not 0.1% and very likely wrongfully booting some off who fail to get the memo or are otherwise unable to meet the requirements. All to chase some hypothetical fraud that makes up 0.1% of the budget. The damage done is very likely to outweigh any savings.

I'm *very* interested in making government more efficient, and even more so rooting out fraud. But the cost of the effort has to be considered, and frankly I have yet to see DOGE do either of those things.

[dzhiurgis]

Assuming 13% of adults in US don't have a drivers license that leaves with 33m people without driving license.

100m / 33m = $3 per person to issue a valid ID. Dunno how much an ID costs in USA, but over 10 years it would pay itself...

In reality the amount of people without some form of Id AND on benefit is at least an order of magnitude less.

[Volundr]

Here in Idaho it's a minimum of $35 dollars for a 4-year (the shortest you can get). The cost may be higher or lower elsewhere. Now work out all the other costs of this effort (validating this stuff isn't free, getting caretakers to drive one to an office, damage done to people who don't get the memo or are unable to comply, etc) and you might be ready to work out if this particular plan is worth it.

[esseph]

"If you can't pull up your pants and organize this key item of life, why should you receive support?"

That's interesting.

[tzs]

> Given social security, where you are about to receive thousands of dollars in support while you are unemployed, why would a $100 ID matter?

For getting ID when retiring a bigger problem might be proving your ID to the agency that issues the IDs. To get a driver's license in some states if you don't already have an acceptable photo ID such as a US passport you need to show your birth certificate (original or a certified copy).

Getting a certified copy of your birth certificate usually require showing ID. Some states require that to be a photo ID.

Some states do provide alternatives if you don't have one of the photo IDs they prefer. Texas for example has three lists labeled A, B, and C. A includes the strongest forms of identity documentation, B intermediate, and C weakest. They want one from A, or 2 from B, or 1 from B and 2 from C. Most people could probably do 1 from B and 2 from C, although it might be challenging if you were the wife in a traditional husband works/wife keeps house arrangement.

Some states will let you get it if you submit a notarized sworn statement saying who you are, so those should be no problem.

There may also be issues in making the request. Remember, for someone retiring we are talking about people born 60-70 years ago. I don't know if all states have consolidated their birth records processing or if it is handled separately by each county. If it is the later for the state where you were born you may need to know which county you were born in to get a copy of the birth certificate.

I have no doubt that there are even people who aren't sure what state they were born in. Kids from military families might have no memories of their birth state. They were probably told what state it was at some point but may not remember that 60 years later when they are retiring.

People who were adopted when very young might also be a problem. If they were adopted young enough that they had not yet learned their own first name the adoptive parents may have changed the child's first name. They may never know their birth name which could make finding their birth certificate hard even if they do know the state or county of their birth.

Another problem could be mismatched names. I ran into that when I realized that I hadn't seen my Social Security card in years and applied for copy. Many common names in the US have short forms that are widely used and alternate forms that are widely used. Someone whose first name is Robert for example might go by Rob or Robbie or Bob or Bobbie or even Bert. I've got a name like that, although with only two short/variant forms.

The Social Security Administration (SSA) has me in their records using the longest form of my name. My driver's license has the short form that probably 90% of the people with my first name actually use. The SSA said because of that my driver's license was not acceptable ID to them. The address matched the address they had for me and the birthday matched but that wasn't good enough.

I eventually found one utility where I had used the long form when signing up and an apartment lease that I signed with the long form. A copy of that lease agreement and a utility bill finally convinced them to issue me copy of my card.

After that I got a certified copy of my birth certificate and then got a passport so that I would have one document that could be used for both proof of identity and proof of citizenship and that can be periodically renewed without having to reprove identity and citizenship.

> Voting is more interesting one. Supposedly better educated and better well off democratic voters aren't able to procure an ID? WTF I am reading?

Around 21 million eligible voters in the US in fact do lack ID that would be acceptable under their state's voter ID laws.

Some people are surprised by this, wondering how those people can open a bank account, cash checks, or get a job without without such ID.

Then they learn something even more surprising: 6% of US adults don't have any bank accounts, and 23% of adults making less than $25k/year don't have any bank account.

One way to cash a check without ID is to use a third party endorsement. You sign the check over to a trusted friend who does have ID and they cash the check and then give you the cash.

For jobs my guess is that a fair number of the people without ID are living with someone who does have ID and has a job. In a traditional household with one income earner and one person who stays at home the stay at home person may go nost of the life without ever needing whatever ID their state requires for voting.

My guess is many of the rest have jobs that pay in cash and are off the record.