[csomar]

> An entire generation of women from conservative backgrounds couldn't attend university in Turkiye until the 2000s because of the hijab ban.

This should have been countered by "forcing" education for everyone. For university, you could do special high subsidies that enable the woman to break from their families. It'll be painful for a couple generations but it does work.

[rafram]

I may be misunderstanding what you’re saying, but it sounds like you’re assuming that women only continue wearing hijab because their families force them to. That’s certainly not the case.

[nurettin]

It is extremely rare to meet a hijab girl in Turkey whose family never told her to wear one. For a woman, telling her to wear a hijab as she grows up is pretty much enforcement.

[rafram]

Sure, but it doesn’t follow that they only continue to wear it because their families force them to. Most traditions have to be taught, but that doesn’t mean that they’re only continued by force. My parents sent me to Saturday school where they told me to do Shabbat dinner and taught me the traditions — that doesn’t mean that I’m being forced to sit down for brisket as an adult.

The suggestion was prohibiting the hijab in higher education and subsidizing it, as if the only barrier to conservative women attending an institution where they’re prohibited from dressing traditionally is their parents’ approval. That’s not the case.

[nurettin]

I do think the suggestion was pretty bad. Segregation is always bad. But traditions not continuing to adulthood sounds like a load of nonsense, especially considering the issue of head scarves or hijabs which are things women of certain upbringing are supposed to wear to adulthood. It is not comparable to santa claus and they won't disavow you for not eating brisket with family.

[mda]

This argument is weird, in all cultures and religions children usually follow their families traditions and beliefs.

[nurettin]

Yes, there isn't much sense in talking about choices, then.

[Cyph0n]

“Pretty much” is doing a lot of work here. So are you saying that parents should never teach their children about their own religious beliefs? Or is your problem with the hijab specifically?

[nurettin]

They do whatever they want with their children and I don't care if the whole world including men wear hijabs. Or maybe even multiple hijabs on top of each other.

But people who think it isn't forced are simply wrong.

[hjgjhyuhy]

Many are forced.

[Cyph0n]

Many women - and men - are forced to do things. This is not a problem unique to hijab.

[Cyph0n]

You mean by “forcing” women to remove their hijab? That’s called religious persecution.

[yupyupyups]

>This should have been countered by "forcing" education for everyone. For university, you could do special high subsidies that enable the woman to break from their families. It'll be painful for a couple generations but it does work.

Yikes

[whatshisface]

I wonder why these comments are always written from the imagined perspective of a space invader that has reformed countless planets already...

[zmgsabst]

Colonialism never died, just rebranded.

Progressivism started as a movement to empower technocrats to “better” society via social engineering — and as a continuation of US/EU colonialism. They invented the concept of “scientific racism”, forcibly sterilized undesirables, etc.

Now their followers destroy native culture, eg Japanese culture, promote a return to systemic racism, etc.

And make posts like this, where they argue that forcibly indoctrinating the youth with their ideology will enlighten society.

[nurettin]

"Colonialism" and "Islamophobia" are mostly arabic talking points that will never catch on. They don't strike a nerve, they don't bring forth some hidden truth. The underlying principle is: People from different cultures see their own cultures as superior. Most religious Turkish people see themselves as the true representatives of islam due to past Ottoman reign and culture. Most europeans will see their own country as being superior to other countries in europe, and the european civilization to be better than the rest of the world. Chinese will do the same. Almost all arabs do the same. It is basic tribalism, there is no global conspiracy against islam, people just don't like it. So get over it.

[zmgsabst]

Like Catholic schools in the US solved the “backwards” culture of the indigenous? — just force people to attend schools of your preferred ideology?