[eru]

> Of course, those same conservative politicians then do the exact same shenanigans of corruption, power politics, and authoritarianism, and so the cycle continues.

The curious things was that early in Erdogan's reign, that is during the 2000s, Turkey seemed to be genuinely making progress, especially in terms of economic policy and outcomes. That's when he was still making fairly orthodox reforms more or less along the lines required by the EU for aspiring new members. (Yes, neoliberal reforms work!)

In the last few years we saw more 'interesting' economic ideas from Erdogan, like that high interest rates cause inflation.

[csomar]

To be fair, he is still doing the infrastructure build up. I think the only difference is that he has moved from the liberal agenda; but he only followed that agenda to have a shot at the EU membership. Once that became not a viable option, he obviously regressed on that.

I don't think keeping the same policies as the 2000s would have avoided the hyper-inflation spirals though it might have marginally helped. Turkey issue is that it can't move from being a poor economy (as in simple rent industries like tourism and packaging stuff) to a middle economy where they can manufacture some stuff. Istanbul is a very misleading city because it paints a different picture to the reality of the average turk once you are outside of the city bubble.

[jajko]

Capital city bubble is present in some form in every single country, not sure whats the argument with that. Thats basic open economy

[eru]

Agreed in principle.

> Capital city bubble is present in some form in every single country, [...]

Some countries are remarkably multi-centric. See eg Germany or the US, where the political capital isn't really the centre of the economy.

I don't think that's good or bad, just interesting.

[ulfw]

Same can be said for many countries, even highly developed ones such as the US or UK

[eru]

What do you mean by 'rent economy'?

Tourism is a pretty good sector for the economy, especially because by its very nature you have to compete internationally with the rest (and best) of the world. There's no shelter behind tariffs or similar.

[csomar]

Tourism in Turkey is essentially one dude owning the land/establishment and 10 dudes running around serving tourists. Nothing wrong with that if that's a small part of your economy but if you have most of your people doing that, then it's definitively a mismanagement of your country talent.

[alephnerd]

> In the last few years we saw more 'interesting' economic ideas from Erdogan, like that high interest rates cause inflation

Basically a bailout for AKP aligned construction oligarchs like MAPA Group. Turkiye did the same thing in the 2000s that China did in the 2010s with real estate construction.

> Turkey seemed to be genuinely making progress, especially in terms of economic policy and outcomes. That's when he was still making fairly orthodox reforms more or less along the lines required by the EU for aspiring new members. (Yes, neoliberal reforms work!)

Yep, but moreso IMF, because Erdogan 1.0 still had to follow IMF terms and reforms from the 2001 bailout.

[eru]

Yes, IMF rules and EU neoliberal orthodoxy actually work.

Have a look at the development of Greek unemployment numbers over the last decade or so. It has been a steady downward march, with Covid merely a minor blip.

(Having said that, unemployment is still at something like 10%. That's bad, but far from 'basket case' territory.)

[ashoeafoot]

because thr youth left in droves? Empty house == good statistics

[eru]

As long as they have jobs elsewhere?

[rvense]

Brain drain means you have great politics, gotcher.

[eru]

Beats high unemployment.