[tdeck]

> I don't know if it's true

There are polls about this that you could easily look up. Is your position that if most Israelis affirmatively support atrocities like this, the rest of the world should just pretend like we never saw that?

> America has killed at least 100x more civilians than Israel has

These aren't mutually exclusive. Israel is one of America's proxies. I'd support the international community putting sanctions on the US to put a stop to these things, but unfortunately it's not likely to happen because the US is the world's largest superpower and controls the global reserve currency, so it can operate with a degree of impunity. Is that a good situation, that you want to replicate around the world?

> no one on his right mind would demonize ordinary Americans

When the overwhelming majority of a country supports committing atrocities, it's not "demonizing" them to point that out.

> to be persecuted everywhere they step on earth.

Apparently it's "persecution" when people say that enthusiastically participating in a genocidal ethno-state's secret police means your company shouldn't get 32 billion dollars.

[weatherlite]

> Is your position that if most Israelis affirmatively support atrocities like this, the rest of the world should just pretend like we never saw that?

If the world should generalize over entire populations groups according to some poll then it should at least be consistent and not do it only to Israelis. If I find a poll that shows most Palestinians support October 7th would you immediately denounce every Gazan you talk to? It's also quite obvious many Gazans agreed not only with October 7th but also with the subsequent treatment of the Israeli hostages (which is a type of long lasting torture). Most of these hostages were/are simply kidnapped civilians, the ones you talk about in Sdei Teiman were most likely Hamas fighters connected to extreme cases of violence and terrorism. So there's more nuance here than you make it out to be. I personally think if anyone sexually abused them they should be thrown in jail but I can see why many Israelis have their hearts filled with hatred toward Hamas fighters. It's the job of the state to maintain rule of law.

[cess11]

No, there isn't. There is exactly zero nuance in phenomena like death camps, torture camps and the systematic murder and torture of children and so on. If this is something you engage in, then you cannot be expected to be treated as a sane, full person. If you do this, or defend this, then you should expect harsh resistance, because that is a legitimate and ethical response.

It is telling that your fantasy about "Hamas fighters connected to extreme cases of violence and terrorism" helps you accept and tolerate systematic sexual abuse of palestinian men, but you don't draw similar conclusions from the actual, real, bombing of small children starving in haphazard tents. The palestinians do not have the capability to do "extreme violence", they just don't have the materials and tools and suppliers needed, because they suffer under occupation or in refugee camps.

The reason most jewish israelis are fine with the crimes their state is committing is not the palestinians themselves, which have a right to resist the occupation violently.

[weatherlite]

> The palestinians do not have the capability to do "extreme violence", they just don't have the materials and tools and suppliers needed, because they suffer under occupation or in refugee camps.

They did. They used that capacity to kill as many people as they could - they reached around 1200 people (+ 250 more kidnapped - many of whom died later) which is not a lack of capacity, and then the war started. Now they have much degraded capacity which is probably a good thing for Israeli civilians. If the Palestinian had a greater capacity to kill on October 7th they would have used it.

[cess11]

Those numbers are pathetic compared to the suffering caused by the israeli occupation of palestinians.

The palestinian armed groups had a lot more weaponry than they brought along on October 7th, in an operation that was explicitly aimed at military personnel and bases, as detailed in the israeli report published a while back. They concluded for example that the palestinians in the unorganised second wave arrived at the Nova festival because they couldn't find the way to a military base.

It is unknown how many of those 1200 were killed by friendly fire. From widely circulated photos it has to be a rather large portion, and you also fail to mention that a lot of those people were soldiers and other combatants.

It's not a war, it's a genocidal occupation that is met with puny resistance. You should stop lying and get help to leave zionism.

[gryzzly]

There are proofs against everything you wrote here. How can capturing children as hostages be "explicitly aimed at military personnel"? OK, they didn’t find a military base, so why not butcher party goers, right? Completely normal conclusion. Just read what you type out.

The puny resistance with Iranian and Qatari support? Tens of thousands of rockets and drones are "puny"?

> “We have local factories for everything, for rockets with ranges of 250 km, for 160 km, 80km, and 10 km. We have factories for mortars and their shells. … We have factories for Kalashnikovs (rifles) and their bullets. We’re manufacturing the bullets with permission from the Russians. We’re building it in Gaza,” Ali Baraka, head of Hamas National Relations Abroad, is quoted as saying.

You should stop lying and stop the hate against a people who defend themselves.

[cess11]

You're intermingling the organised operation against the occupation with the unorganised second wave that didn't just result in prisoners.

Yes. It's puny.

It's not defense when you're the aggressor.

[weatherlite]

> Those numbers are pathetic compared to the suffering caused by the israeli occupation of palestinians

The Gaza numbers are pathetic compared to the Vietnam war and the Vietnam war was nothing compared to the Holocaust. Let's keep deteriorating this debate I'm loving it.

[cess11]

I don't think you should.