[ben_w]

> I still don't care. I may just buy another Tesla and a handgun :)

That kind of escalation is very American of you.

I'd like to remind you of the demonstration of the "bulletproof" windows of the Cybertruck and consider quite how bad things may get if Americans don't learn to live with each other without constantly laughing about "triggering" each other when the more literal trigger is on the firearms you have a constitutional right to own.

That so many are, like yourself, so blasé about the risks, was one reason I decided against migrating to the USA when I had the chance.

[tekknik]

so you’re advocating for the “peaceful” protests to be allowed to continue? adults know this is improper behavior by the left, but we must just let it play out to avoid triggering the “protesters” who didn’t get their way in the election? why can’t they just act like adults?

[ben_w]

> so you’re advocating for the “peaceful” protests to be allowed to continue? adults know this is improper behavior by the left, but we must just let it play out to avoid triggering the “protesters” who didn’t get their way in the election? why can’t they just act like adults?

The only change I have to do to make to your comment for it to be about the events of Jan 6 2021, is a single "left" becoming "right".

Now, as a non-American who isn't immunised and calloused to your nation's vocal rhetoric and use of literal gun sights in political campaign posters, I can't tell how close you are to a civil war.

I would rather not watch you have one, not even at this distance. So please, figure out how to not be cruel to each other.

I didn't call the arson attacks "peaceful".

[mlindner]

Two wrongs don't make a right. (Heck they're even different classifications of wrongs and not remotely comparable given that they're very different.)

> So please, figure out how to not be cruel to each other.

It'd start by Europeans not egging on Americans to be complicit with or actively commit violence against other people's property.

[ben_w]

> Two wrongs don't make a right. (Heck they're even different classifications of wrongs and not remotely comparable given that they're very different.)

Yes. Only one of "invading Capitol buildings to disrupt election confirmation while chanting 'Hang Mike Pence'" and "arson against private company and their vehicles" is actually attempting to overturn an election.

But both can be described by the comment I quoted, modulo s/left/right/

> It'd start by Europeans not egging on Americans to be complicit with or actively commit violence against other people's property.

I'm literally saying to chill and not escalate. Calling for you to not wind each other up. Musk, however: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5ydddy3qzgo

[tekknik]

you’re still beating on that drum?

what direct cost to individuals did Jan 6 cause? did anybody in Jan 6 loop individual citizens in and destroy their property to force alignment? no you say? this is literal terrorism because the entire point is to force an outcome using fear and violence and they should be dealt with according to US terrorism law.

[ben_w]

> what direct cost to individuals did Jan 6 cause? did anybody in Jan 6 loop individual citizens in and destroy their property to force alignment?

Other than the funeral costs[0], the medical bills for injuries[1][2], journalists had equipment damaged[2][a] and stolen[3], various people had to increase security due to being doxxed[4], statues within the Capitol buildings were damaged[5], and the Speaker of the House had her laptop stolen[6] (more important due to her position than the device).

You may consider "$30 million"[7] to be peanuts, though that's without the cost of actually policing the event which was over 10x that[8]. The victims by and large, were not so rich as to be able to ignore such costs — even including the representatives (though most of the harm wasn't to their person, just their offices), though for this caveat about mere physical enumerable cost rather than political intimidation I am mainly talking about the journalists who had their stuff destroyed and the police who were injured.

And the FBI still doesn't know who planted the pipe bombs (plural!)[b].

> no you say?

What, exactly, do you think about 1500 people were convicted for doing? And they were convicted, even though Trump then pardoned them[9].

Why did you think Trump was impeached twice?

Why did you think Colorado, Maine, and Illinois tried to block Trump from being on the ballot?

Why, given Trump's record that included him not caring about people chanting to hang his own Vice President[10][11][12], do you think the Republican party allowed him back on their ticket if not for their members being intimidated by these riots?

> this is literal terrorism because the entire point is to force an outcome using fear and violence and they should be dealt with according to US terrorism law.

Yes, the Jan 6 attacks were in fact terrorism.

The fact you're trying to downplay that while being upset about property damage… is, unfortunately, very human.

I say "unfortunately", because that means it's hard to resolve. I can't just tell you to be reasonable, because reason is not how you got to your current state — that's very, very, dangerous, but I can't simply talk you out of this, and that means there's a huge chance you're going to escalate this and then be surprised by the response, which you don't see coming because you can't put yourself in other's shoes and see how you look from their point of view, how you're making enemies out of fellow citizens and making them fear for their lives and want to use against you the very force you say is fine when your own side does it.

Step back. Chill. Meet some people on the other side of the aisle. Share a beer and watch some sports or something. Whatever it is you Americans do for fun. Make friends, before this gets any worse.

Doing that might even prevent it getting worse.

Hopefully.

But here's a question for you: when you get to reading this paragraph, had you read any of these citations and considered them, or did you start drafting your reply performing what is called "arguments-as-soldiers" and disregarding anything that didn't fit your world view?

Because none of this should be news to you.

--

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Brian_Sicknick

[1] https://thehill.com/homenews/house/533186-1-capitol-police-o...

[2] https://thehill.com/homenews/news/533022-videos-show-protest...

[a] https://www.denver7.com/news/election-2020/rioters-at-capito...

[3] https://www.ap.org/media-center/ap-in-the-news/2021/journali...

[4] https://www.yahoo.com/news/federal-agents-tackle-jan-6-16130...

[5] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/smithsonian-curato...

[6] https://www.lex18.com/news/kentucky-man-suspected-of-stealin...

[7] https://pressnewsagency.org/capitol-riot-costs-will-exceed-3...

[8] https://taskandpurpose.com/news/financial-cost-capitol-insur...

[b] https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/ckgzwywe3k6o

[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon_of_January_6_United_Sta...

[10] https://web.archive.org/web/20210108204207/https://www.busin...

[11] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

[12] https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-pence-scorches-trump-en...

[lvass]

This is exactly the type of thing that makes me like America. Taking risks is an essential part of life and the more open you are to sane risks, the better. The reason I don't move there is tax laws, but boy do I, as a third worlder, want a "gold card".

[ben_w]

> sane risks

On the Venn diagram of "risky things" and "sane things", there's a lot of overlap.

But I'd say "aggravating people who have a right to bear guns" is not in the overlap.

[coldpie]

It's a lot less fun than it sounds. https://www.kare11.com/article/news/crime/woman-shot-by-stra...

[ben_w]

That link redirects to their YouTube channel home page.

[coldpie]

Sorry, local news websites are a disaster. You can probably find the story by searching terms from the URL slug. That particular story doesn't really matter, it was just the most recent one in my area that came to mind. There is no shortage of similar stories across the US.

[soco]

You may think yourself as very American, but the real Americans voted to keep you (and pretty much everybody else, don't worry) of their America. I call this cognitive dissonance (or trolling, I'm too simple to tell).

[tekknik]

no we didn’t. we voted to keep illegal immigrants out. literally nobody has a problem with immigrants using legal methods.

[ben_w]

> literally

Court order, H1B, still deported: https://www.newsweek.com/medical-doctor-deported-us-despite-...

[tekknik]

I don’t see a problem there, they take jobs from americans and the current companies abusing the H1B process are doing so not to gain rare knowledge or experience but to abuse people. So i’m totally onboard. H1B should be for people like Musk, not randos that happen to know a few things.

[ben_w]

You don't see a problem with a legal migrant being deported despite a court order saying "don't do that"?

> H1B should be for people like Musk, not randos that happen to know a few things.

QED you yourself falsify your own prior statement, "literally nobody has a problem with immigrants using legal methods".

This is a person using a legal method.

You have a problem with that.

[anigbrowl]

Questionable. There are lots of people opposed to legal immigration, if you are not aware of this now you soon will be.

https://www.wmur.com/article/german-national-fabian-schmidt-...

[tekknik]

you’ve cherry picked an example, and don’t really know what they’ve done a you don’t have a security clearance. i’ll wait to reserve judgement

[anigbrowl]

Here's another example: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/canadian-det...

[anigbrowl]

Historically the burden of proof in the legal system is on the authorities, not the accused. There's a name for countries where only people with security clearances are allowed to form opinions.