[JumpCrisscross]

> Start doing mass studies on cognitive problems created by instagram and TikTok. Publish them in big journals

This has already happened. We didn't kick Big Tobacco by publishing research and just talking about it. We got them with bans. I don't see America doing it. But now would be a good time for e.g. the EU to start regulating social media like a utility.

[6stringmerc]

We made smoking heavily taxed and socially unacceptable as well - watch Die Hard 2. John McClain is smoking in public spaces like the AIRPORT. People still do cocaine regularly, but in secret or in bathrooms. The problem with social media is the legal SUPPORT in the US, it’s far worse than tobacco ever dreamed of accomplishing.

Banning social media in public spaces is something I would support, but HOW?

[Nextgrid]

> the EU to start regulating social media like a utility.

They could just actually enforce the existing GDPR which already makes most of these addiction-based models unsustainable.

[JumpCrisscross]

> could just actually enforce the existing GDPR which already makes most of these addiction-based models unsustainable

It would be ill advised without a popular mandate. Remember the conspiracy theories the TikTok ban prompted? You don't want to yank the neo-Nazis' Twitters on a bureaucratic point.

[Nextgrid]

That's the key - a ban on social media will be endlessly argued (what counts as social media?) and would raise suspicions.

A ban on non-consensual data collection (or rather, the enforcement of existing rules) is not only much easier to define (the laws are already written in fact) but also very straightforward to understand.

Social media is welcome to continue to exist at a loss, but the removal of the financial incentive for greater "engagement" should make it much less toxic.

[dkh]

We don't need (and shouldn't want) bans at all. We need very strict criteria on what platforms can or cannot do, how they can or cannot operate. They should be massively scrutinized, with an enormous amount of regulation and oversight, that results in such platforms being unable to take actions deemed unsafe for the public. (At the very least, in the form of eye-watering fines or disincentives, but perhaps extending as far as limiting the field to non-profits, and/or the risk of the government taking control of your platform if it does not comply.)

[JumpCrisscross]

> We don't need (and shouldn't want) bans at all. We need very strict criteria on what platforms can or cannot do, how they can or cannot operate

If you're unwilling to put a ban on the table, the law is toothless and will be flouted. Maybe not forever. But the EU's ability to enforce its will on American companies is already tentative at best.

[dkh]

I'm not saying it's not on the table. My example included platforms being seized or forced to shut down. It just shouldn't be our starting point or our goal.

It shouldn't be the only viable option because we have no other legal mechanism with which to regulate these platforms before they have become enormous and powerful and spiral out of control.

If it needs to be done, it should be done for the right reasons. (Not that a TikTok ban would be bad, or that it's not a sensible move geopolitically, but in the context of the discussion in this thread, a TikTok ban is definitely not on the table because we've agreed that society is harmed by addiction to a centralized social media platform, or whatever. Any side-effects in those areas as a result of the ban would just be collateral.)

I would just prefer a ban never needing to come into play because we don't let things get bad

[JumpCrisscross]

> ban on non-consensual data collection (or rather, the enforcement of existing rules) is not only much easier to define (the laws are already written in fact) but also very straightforward to understand

I worked on the TikTok bill. Nobody reads the details when you threaten to take their toys.

Like, play it out. EU says Twitter, quit it. Elon says fuck off. Now what? You fine him. Great. Elon says fuck off. You start, what, raiding the Ireland office? Seizing bank accounts? If he takes Twitter dark, do you think its users will be differentiating between non-consensual data collection and a ban? We haven't even geopoliticised it yet!

The same suspicions that would animate a ban (or regulation) will animate starting to enforce GDPR now. For this to work, it has to be bottom up. The only way I see that happening is a rally to the flag move by European leaders and a show of force with a targeted new bill.

[ulfw]

The neo Nazis are all over Tik Tok et al, which is how they spread their propaganda and lies. Much easier to lie in 20 second video sound bites than in a proper hour long sit down discussion.

[VectorLock]

We almost got there with TikTok. Almost...

[JumpCrisscross]

> We almost got there with TikTok. Almost...

Not really. The TikTok ban was rooted in national security concerns. The coalition that brought it forward would not be useful for regulating social media as the drug analog it is.

I don't see a brilliant move in America. (There is an a brilliant opportunity in the EU, Canada and Mexico to recapitulate the TikTok bill's rhetoric and structure, aiming it at both China and America.)

[kelseydh]

The TikTok ban was motivated primarily by the Israel lobby wanting to crack down on pro-Palestinian content.

[JumpCrisscross]

> TikTok ban was motivated primarily by the Israel lobby wanting to crack down on pro-Palestinian content

It really wasn't. But I agree that this was a popular take. (Funnily enough, the rumor helped shore up the bill's polling among Republican-leaning voters. And once it was up, like, yes, rule number one of politics is you generally don't say no to votes.)

The EU going after Instagram and Twitter would find its own stable of bizarre conspiracy theories.

[cscurmudgeon]

The analogies are all over the place lol.

Is social media pure evil like tobacco OR is it a necessity like a utility?

How can it be both?

EU pretends it is both while getting backdoor access.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/economy/2024/6/20/orwellian-eu...