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by mmwelt 454 days ago
Unfortunately, iOS simply does not allow apps like Briar to run reliably in the background[1]. Unless Apple changes its thinking about iOS, Briar or other similar apps would never work reliably.

[1] https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/685525

3 comments

People have the power to not use iPhones, and should exercise it.
Switching ecosystems is a huge pain, I started with iPhone and eventually moved to Android and back again to iPhone. When you use a lot of the Apple/Google Services, it's not really easy to just switch over
It's only Apple that does this lock-in thing, IME. Google also has services, but they're not as important or inseparable.
I guess it's easy if a person cares enough about it? I'm the relative PITA in my family because I prefer to put everything on a paper calendar and mostly use my phone for Signal, iMessage, occasional email, some photos, and internet, including toe-dips into this forum as my social media engagement. I'm in my 40s, grew up with a Commodore64, and am disenchanted with computers now (while still using them for a few things- life's messy, and that's okay). Surveillance capitalism is more of a threat to much of what I care about (includes partcipatory democracy and mutual aid), and it makes sense to both push back and find a better path.

Humans have done okay for a hundred thousand years+ without computers, with some dark ages here and there when people get greedy.

Honestly with Apple not producing folding phones I think in a few generations everybody will have naturally moved to Android
This is such a weird take. Folding phones are a tiny market and they all have considerable durability downsides.

Also, if the market did shift Apple could easily build one. I’m sure they’ve prototyped a few already.

People said the same thing about bigger screens years ago
No larger screen has ever had issues with permanent damage from regular use. They just aren’t a good fit for most people in their current durability state. Anyone who totally baby’s their phone can use them, but that’s about it. Also, they’re pretty much all in an extreme price bracket. You could buy a small tablet and a regular flagship phone for the price of one of the galaxy folds.
I have one and constantly drop it and its still in perfect condition. Not sure what you mean
People didn't like the OG Xbox "Duke" controller. They complained left and right.

I'm a tall adult male. Every other controller is tiny to me.

My max phone size is just about right on the ProMax iPhones. They should be a little smaller - but only a little, like 1-2 mm width. I've got big hands, and I love a big screen.

If only folding phones weren't prohibitively expensive, fragile, and most notably completely pointless...
They're basically going to replace your phone and tablets. But people have a hard time seeing into the future
I don't want one unless they can make the screen completely perfect where it folds. Which they won't be able to.
It is perfect already, what do you mean? Go try one in a store its not hard
Will that be before or after flying cars?
huh? Those things are a novelty. I may be aging into fuddy-duddy land, though. If I keep using a mobile phone, I like the smaller ones that easily fit in one hand and most pockets, I want it to last a decade or more (this iphone is from 2018, I think), and I like it just powerful enough for communication, browsing, and photos. Done with games.

To try to see another view, though, if the tech is there and not too harmful (that's relative- I think our venture into computer-land is immensely harmful in many ways) and durable enough, it seems nice to protect the screen? Except if grit gets between the glass?

I don’t trust Android.
What do you not trust of AOSP? How can you trust a proprietary closed-source OS more than an open-source one?
Android isn't AOSP, and Android isn't open source.

It's safe to assume that every large tech company is spying on everything you do - including Apple. (Remember they're legally required to do so in the UK, and probably in more countries but it only leaked in the UK)

Android is more trustworthy not because of that but because it lets you install apps that haven't been approved by corporate overlords first.

I don’t blindly trust Apple either, but I believe enough of what they say and consider the gaps when they don’t say something. They fight things like the UK E2E encryption requests… but also, having owned both Android and Apple devices, and managing my own iOS devices and the Android devices my parents own, I definitely feel like the iOS devices are more secure and less prone to bad actors via App Store. I think safari is more anonymizing than chrome.

The (US) government already has too much access to us, and I think Android is more open to them than iOS. The government has cameras in public and access to our banking data, I’m not gonna protect myself from them by choosing one platform more than the other, or one bank more than the other.

What I don’t want, though, is to be annoyed to death or scammed. My choice is more front loaded by that consideration. If I find out that Apple accedes to backdoors though, I’d have to live without both Android and iOS.

Accedes is a good word, I don't think I've ever seen it before.
the root of accede makes "Accessible", too; that which enables one "to enter".
Okay, buy me an Android then.
If you bought an iPhone you could buy an Android.
But I don't want an Android. So if you desire for me to use Android, buy me an Android.
Advice is not desire. I advise you to keep batteries in your fire alarm, but I don't personally care enough to buy you any.
Didn't really sound like advice.

And thats we are different. I would.

I actually have an app in iOS store that completely executes in the background: https://itunes.apple.com/app/id6737482921?mt=8

Never had it stopped by iOS. So not only there's no fundamental restriction, the App Store itself allows some apps to do that.

What API are you using to keep running in the background? Most likely you are misusing it on some manner and have yet to get caught by App Review.
I've seen this bypassed via background audio and background location.
The app does background audio, and its use is legitimate. It is an audio app.

But the point is - there's no fundamental restriction from the OS itself.

You contradicted yourself.

Whether you want to call it a “restriction”, “a lack of permission without being X type of activity”, or “it works because the app exhibits Y behavior”, it’s all functionally a restriction.

You can run some background activities that are not audio apps, but you’re at the mercy of iOS’s decision to keep your task active or not. If you’re off the charger, all bets are off. iOS’s dev docs make this very clear.

No, basic set theory: not every restriction is a fundamental restriction.
Another way of phrasing this: There is a fundamental restriction, with a carve out for a few specific things, including audio playback.
I don't think you understand the difference between a fundamental restriction and a restriction in general.
Not sure what you mean with fundamental. As mentioned in the thread parent comment links to, the issue lies in enforced limits and lack* of general mechanism available to developers to allow background execution for any kind of app or/and purpose. No one said iOS itself lacks the functionality for background execution.

*In the same thread, it is noted that this lack is by choice and special-purpose mechanisms are preferred instead to prevent abuse.

There's AltStore sideloading, would that enable it?
It's not an issue of sideloading or censorship in iOS. It's a product decision related to background apps (they kill the running process with no recourse to bring it up again on its own).
As I understand it, only Apple's own apps get the magical blessing to run in the background whenever they want.
Hmm, seems anti-competitive.
In Europe it's been ruled that since Apple makes no pretense of being competitive, they don't have to be, while Google has to actually deliver on their open platform promises.
Anti trust enforcement was tried briefly at the turn of the century but was deemed unprofitable for oligarchs, so it is no longer in fashion.
Eh, it has seen a mini resurgence recently
This affects other Bluetooth-using apps too, like the Fitbit app needs to be periodically restarted in order to get data synced from a tracker.