[scantis]

In the story oh Hiob/Job,he is unaffected in his behavior and the trust instilled in him from others, which clearly discouble his person from his misfortune.

In the original there is no word for faith, believe or trust only for character. Job is of good character despite his misfortune, that makes him a man of God.

[taylorlapeyre]

Technically correct, but quite misleading. The idea of "trust in God" or "faithfulness" is completely central to Job. The story doesn't concern itself with "doctrinal faith", but it implicitly discusses "faith" in the general sense of trust in the providence of God in the face of challenges that might make one abandon Him.

[scantis]

The word used was "aemuna" or "æmunatō". The most basic translation is reliability. The other word much later was pisteōs with loyalty in its most basic translation.

The concept of faith as you describe it is a late interpretation, morphing both concepts together. Jobs "faith" is his reliability of character, neither his believe nor faith, yet axiomatically the definition behind those words. That if you choose to believe in God and have faith your reliability of character will come or strive to have it.

Without being misleading, you may have it without any believe or faith in God.

[taylorlapeyre]

What is a "late interpretation" in your view? What time period exactly? Job has been read as a story that directly dialogues on the possibility of faith and trust in God in the face of evil for millennia. See The Babylonian Talmud (Bava Batra 15a-16b), Midrash Rabbah (Genesis Rabbah, Exodus Rabbah), Saadia Gaon's commentary on Job, even Maimonides. And on the Christian side, Take Origen, John Chrysostom, and especially Gregory The Great's Moralia in Job in the 500s CE.

[scantis]

With late interpretation I mean what is after the fact.

Job has not read his own story.

A late interpretation for me is viewing him, with what he has defined.

If faith would be praying five times a day and avoiding shellfish, his story becomes meaningless.

As you pointed out well, there are many scholars who discussed faith and belief over time. I am not a religious authority, think of me as a simpleton. You may choose their take on the word, it is a late interpretation to me. It could be a whole book on the matter.

The direct translation is reliable.

[gunian]

isn't it crazy an all powerful being would abuse a person to teach them some vague lesson? like truly if you think about it objectively how is that different from the Mike Vick dog fighting scandal

[scantis]

Interesting take.

I may imagin Job being as class with core attributes, integrity and commitment, and the variable attributes like wife, wealth, family etc. You can have billions of different instances of Job and the variable attributes may change over time. If integrity and commitment are unphased by that, the instance of Job is reliable. It is Jobs choice to be reliable, no matter his attributes.

Mistreating dogs changes their core attributes and makes them less reliable. They might be rehabilitated, but this crucial part is not their choice.

This is how I would see the difference. What do you think?

[gunian]

i see the human and the dog as classes that inherit from the same base class with slightly different attributes such as computational power, healing, running speed etc

isnt your comment like saying abuse a dog if its reliable no matter the attributes it is a good dog? abusing people also changes their core attributes which is what trauma is and by this logic poofy guy in the sky is an abuser or a slaver

how do people reconcile that? the christians that raised me used to beat me into believeing wondering if HN has a more philosophical take

[scantis]

Yes absolut exactly. LUCA comes to mind as a base class. Obviously attributes and methods differ quite greatly, we are not just dogs. To reconcile all abuse in this life sounds great, to the humans class, to the dog class it is probably of little interest.

Yet specific therapy dogs can take a lot of abuse, without ever lashing out. They are great for troubled children.