[throw8404948k]

SF is good economicaly? Super expensive, high taxes with no matching infrastructure, hiring people...

Weather is cold and moisty...

There are thousands better places around the world. I would like to hear a pitch, why start company in SF today.

[realityfactchex]

Yeah, it's good economically in the sense that it's still near top of market, due to having a large-ish existing economy (even if aspects of said economy seem fundamentally whack).

As in: if you want something at decent quality you can pretty much get it pretty easily with a bunch of options (assuming you can afford it).

Caveat - not necessarily the top of everything for all markets is available, but overall stuff is still around -- even as some things are disappearing from the area.

In contrast, other places are just poor, and you "cannot" find as large a variety of lots of goods and services, I imagine. But I could be wrong -- I'll check my assumptions. Thanks.

[throw8404948k]

Are services really easily available in SF? I was shocked when we went to restaurant at evening without a reservation. Server give one hour waiting time for a table! At normal city you just drop into nearest good restaurant, and if they are full (very unlikely) you go to next.

How easy is to get a dentist or masseuse, with a few hour notice?!

> In contrast, other places are just poor, and you "cannot" find as large a variety of lots of goods and services

I think you need reality check on "poor". The place with the widest selection of services and products (for example types of meat in supermarket, or hand made tailored clothes) is Bangkok in Thailand. Places like SF just do not have enough people to provide all those services.

[realityfactchex]

> Are services really easily available in SF?

IDK about in the city itself, but in the surrounding metro area I would say yes.

> At normal city you just drop into nearest good restaurant, and if they are full (very unlikely) you go to next.

Right, I was biased toward considering the surrounding cities in the SF metro. I think popping into next open restaurant with seating applies to the healthy downtowns in the area metro area. But the city itself, I wouldn't know.

> a dentist...with a few hour notice

I don't think that kind of dental scheduling is typically found/done _anywhere_ in the US AFAIK.

> meat in supermarket, or hand made tailored clothes) is Bangkok in Thailand

Good counterexample, thank you.

[paradox460]

It used to be found in sf, and I've still found it in slc

Back in 2012 I had a raspberry seed work it's way down into my gums and not come out. Made an appointment at Townsend dental and saw him 3 hours later.

A few weeks ago I had a filling fall out. Called up a local dentist here and got it fixed 90 minutes later

[thatfrenchguy]

Yeah if you’re in a culture where everyone gets a reservation for a fancy restaurant (just like in Paris), you’ll need a reservation, that’s just how the market works.

> How easy is to get a dentist or masseuse, with a few hour notice?!

I mean, everyone who lives here is already affiliated with a dental office and they’ll take you in same day for a real emergency. You can get a Thai massage in two hours very easily too.

The quality of medical care is also stupidly high compared to almost anywhere outside the US. Sure your insurance will pay $$$ for it but who cares?

[groby_b]

Because you meet tons of talented engineers whenever you go for lunch, and they just need to cross the street and walk in to ask for a job.

Because you're around a ton of people who are interested in the same thing as you are. Caveat: If you're not interested in the things SF engineers are interested in, that means you're surrounded by masses of incredibly boring - to you - folks :)

Because that introduction you need to make things pop is super-easy compared to other places.

Doesn't mean you _have_ to start in SF, but for certain classes of ventures, it's the place that makes it the easiest.

[z3phyr]

Subculture wise, SF is barely represented in computer graphics or high performance optimization circles, like gamedev or demoscene, arguably a class of field that produces top quality software engineers.

[groby_b]

Yes. I'm not implying only SF produces great engineers. I'm saying that for a specific large set of problems, SF is swimming in great engineers for those problems.

For other problems, elsewhere may well be better. Gamedev, I'd say SoCal, NC, TX are all better places.(Though the studios have done a "great" job choking off the indie scene). If you talk high performance non-gfx, I'd go with NYC, HFT is pretty interesting.

But that's the whole point. Pick a place that has people who care about the thing you want to do. Because top engineers are almost always engineers who deeply care about the field they're in.

[throw8404948k]

Any remote job listing gets thousands of applications, with dozens good candidates. I really doubt I could get decent engineer for $80k a year in SF.

> Caveat: If you're not interested ... incredibly boring

Everyone in SF has basically the same correct opinion.

And not just booring, but hostile. People in SF are really not that tolerant. Try to say that Dubai is more diverse, because it has many cultures, religions, people from Africa, India, Philippines... Or someone is not XYZ, but mixed race (whiter than me) and you will understand.

[simoncion]

> I really doubt I could get decent engineer for $80k a year in SF.

If you did, they'd be a non-exempt employee, so you'd need to track and pay out overtime. A quick look puts the minimum non-exempt salary for jobs in California at ~$69,000.

Also, honestly? I expect you'd be hard-pressed to find a decent programmer for $80k/year in ANY major metro area in the US... post 2020, housing prices went NUTS across the country and aren't getting any less nuts.

(One of the big reasons I haven't moved out of San Francisco is that my ~50% less than "market rate" rent is not THAT much more than current rents in most other US cities. (Plus, most other US cities don't even pretend to have any sort of useful public transportation.))