[profsummergig]

The recent Delhi election,

I was watching videos of some of the slums.

There were literal hills of rotting organic garbage inside the slums. With children living next to them.

I had visions of Paul Ehrlich freaking out at the sight of people defecating and bathing on the roadside in Delhi.

I saw photos of some of the "mohalla clinics" (free basic healthcare clinics) that the previous Delhi government had (admittedly admirably) set up. Some of them looked so dirty and structurally unsound that they wouldn't be allowed to function as holding pens for farm animals in the US.

In the US, we have companies like Waste Management handle our waste. Surprises me that India doesn't have a dozen Waste Managements by now. Billion dollar unicorns/startups/whatever, innovating in turning "waste to wealth" (as Nitin Gadkari calls it). Put capitalism to use where there's a failure of non-capitalism to solve the problem. But there might be deep cultural issues. I suspect the caste system plays a part. The forward castes believe that trash management is beneath them.

[ViktorRay]

One issue is the unfortunate deep level of corruption in Indian society.

If people create many waste management companies and people tried to invest in them then some people would just create fake companies and simply steal the money. There’s no trust.

Or at least that’s the way it used to be decades prior. Your suggestion nowadays might actually work because the Indian government has now identification measures for every Indian citizen. And other new technologies and enforcement which make this type of corruption more easier to eliminate.

But the deep seated cultural perceptions of dishonesty and endemic corruption from the past will continue for many years unfortunately.

Hopefully one day India can become the kind of place you are suggesting.

[kamaal]

>>One issue is the unfortunate deep level of corruption in Indian society.

Blame every thing on "Corruption". This is such cope.

All you have to do is ensure you do your part in keeping things around you clean. You can ghost walk streets in the poorest places in Mexico and they look affluent compared to even posh neighbourhoods in India.

Lets call it as it is, We Indians need to seriously address our cultural tendencies. Im not just talking about some immediate sense of urgency. But how we go about living our every day life. Unless you address this at a core level, and create a proactive sense of awareness about hygiene in people this isn't going to change.

[squigz]

You can't just personal responsibility your way out of deeply-ingrained societal issues.

[Auracle]

I think with a big enough governmental and cultural push, you could. Something like the white feather campaign, or the various “help the war by doing x” things that happened in WW2.

Honestly, they should really make it a priority. The awareness of what India is like has severely hurt their international reputation.

[ViktorRay]

It sounds like you are trying to argue with what I said.

But…I think what you said doesn’t really contradict what I said. I actually agree with what you are saying about cultural tendencies.

[navigate8310]

I believe that's ingrained in the culture to live besides the filth and romanticize poverty.

[profsummergig]

There was a recent scandal involving someone spitting paan/chewing tobacco on the floor inside one of the state assemblies.

A video I watched of a brand spanking new metro station in Mumbai. Marble floors and all. And a commenter pointed out a timestamp where you can see paan/chewing tobacco spit in a corner of the floor.

Here's what baffles me. It is well established that Indians chew paan/chewing tobacco. It is well established that they then spit these out. Why don't they have spitoons installed inside the state assembly or metro stations? Treat it as a cultural opportunity: create beautiful spitoons with culturally relevant designs on them. The type kings used to have in their courts. And have them sponsored by businesses (i.e. let them post digital banner ads on them). Enlightened capitalism!

[Cthulhu_]

Better yet would be to ban the practice entirely; spittoons in the US (think generic wild west saloons) were a major source of spreading diseases like tuberculosis. They (and chewing tobacco) went out of fashion in the '30's due to shifting perceptions of hygiene, and both chewing gum and cigarettes becoming the more favorable options. I'm not sure how much campaigning was done to achieve that though.

[lotsofpulp]

Someone willing to spit their filthy tobacco saliva everywhere and anywhere is not going to go out of their way to use a spitoon.

[thatloststudent]

"The Ugly Indian" [1] (a ragtag group of anonymous citizens) usually does that in India. In reality, though, these kinds of issues are only really seen as a minor inconvenience at most. Anecdotally, most middle-class people in here frown upon chewing tobacco, so I assume the government thinks that as long as they keep it relatively clean, nobody would think of dirtying it with their paan stains.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf1VA5jqmRo

[dartharva]

That's because no politician wants to be the one "promoting tobacco products" with such an initiative.

[quickthrowman]

Then someone has to empty the spittoons, people will use them as urinals and garbage cans, etc.

[dartharva]

Disgustingly racist comment.

[lupusreal]

It's specifically a problem of culture, not race. Human "races" are equal, cultures are not.

[dartharva]

The term "racist" lost its pedantic meaning long ago. From the current Oxford Dictionary of English:

    racism
    /ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/
    noun
    
    prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

[inglor_cz]

How do you explain the differences across South Asia by anything else than cultural attitudes towards cleanliness and dirt?

Singapore is very clean. Malaysia is fairly clean. Cambodia sort of. India and Philippines very much not.

And Zoroastrians are absolutely meticulous about cleanliness, be they poor or rich.

[dartharva]

All such questions are easily answered once you take a look at the per-capita budget each country has for the required expenditures.

India is extremely poor per-capita.

[kamaal]

Nearly all of India is poor. If you step out of major metros, that is as little as 30 - 40 kms from major metros you will see never ending poverty.

Job options are non existent. Farming and some local trade is all you have. There is also total absence of health care infrastructure. Most people have to travel to metros for healthcare. Last time I visited a small town in my weekend motorcycle rides to see my former manager, the biggest political issue in the town was wanting a kidney speciality hospital built. It turns out taking a day off(loss of earnings), traveling to Bangalore, spending money and time for dialysis was bankrupting entire family trees. Similar situations exist for bypass surgeries, and getting stent installed in heart. You will hear these stories for all kinds of major ailments.

Options for schooling and cram schools are absent. Your kids don't get a competitive peer group, or decent enough tuition/coaching to compete with students from metros, and once you lose your chance to study engineering/medicine its just one more generation of poverty your bloodline has to endure.

In the metros, if you have the money you get good hospital and schools. But owning a home is nearly impossible these days. By and large if you don't make it to FAANG in a few years, you just leave and move abroad.

Nearly every young person I know doesn't even try and default goal is either Gulf or Jobs in western countries.

In short, its a brutal Zero sum game, everybody grabs whatever they can, by any means they can, even if they have to burn down the whole thing in the process.

[jajko]

Watched videos, seeing photos... you should travel a bit more IMHO. Not everything is quickly solvable by 'billion dollar startup' mentality. Understand their culture and history a bit, where they are coming from and where they as society go, realistic limits and so on.

[Neonlicht]

Culture can be changed. That's the power of Western countries- constant change. Nothing is ever set in stone.

[giraffe_lady]

If you think western countries are in a state of constant change just wait until you visit india a few times.