[Propelloni]

So you seem to think the struggle is already forfeit. That's your choice, but, you know, not fighting means you already lost.

But things are not lost. The very example you cite, Wirecard, despite the attempts to silence the Financial Times (of London, BTW. Wirecard "weaponized" the British justice system) in 2019, has been charged by the German regulator BaFin in 2020 and the scandal is slowly but surely worked out. As of today, three top managers have been sentenced in civil processes to pay damages, 2 more cases are currently heard, 21 more are investigated, and 11 have been exonerated. And this is just civil/trade law, criminal law is also prosecuted. Braun is held in custody, the hearings are ongoing. Marsalek is on the run and presumably hiding in Russia. Erffa and Bellenhaus are about to receive their sentences. Steidl and Knoop are about to have their first hearings this year. Those are all C-level managers.

Could this all go faster? It sure would be nice. But this is better than what you seem to think what is happening. Furthermore, this is all orthogonal to Ecosia's pledge.

[short_sells_poo]

I'm not talking about the struggle, you seem intent on arguing against a strawman. I'm all for the struggle. What I don't believe in is promises like "we are legally not allowed to do X". People are legally not allowed to drive faster than the speed limit. People are legally not allowed to launder money. People are legally not allowed to murder each other.

In corporate law, what is legally allowed or not allowed is irrelevant at the end of the day. The only thing that is relevant is how much money is one willing to throw at the problem, which just depends on how much money they expect to make from it.

Ecosia is doing great work! I'm happy they are doing it and I'm rooting for them. But I consider it naive to believe that their intentions will stay good purely on the basis that it would be illegal for them to do otherwise. This is a completely meaningless protection or backstop in my view.

Just look at what Musk and Trump are doing in the US. They get away with bald faced market manipulation, front running, pump & dump schemes and God knows what else. Why? Because they are extremely rich and have a lot of power.

This doesn't mean we should stop doing good things. But we should probably stop pretending that the law is some sort of invincible barrier to misbehavior. It lends very little credence to the robustness of the promise.

[Propelloni]

> This doesn't mean we should stop doing good things. But we should probably stop pretending that the law is some sort of invincible barrier to misbehavior. It lends very little credence to the robustness of the promise.

So we have common ground. I agree, laws by themselves have no power and they are certainly not an invincible barrier to anything! You need people and the will to uphold them. It requires eternal vigilance. And what I'm saying is that there are people and whole societies, in fact, wanting to and, in fact, upholding laws and the rule of law, e.g. Wirecard.

I may be naive, you may be cynic, that doesn't mean we can't pull on the same string. If you agree with me that the rule of law is desirable and that laws are uphold by people, I'd only ask you to not dismiss laws and the rule of law wholesale, just because there are bad actors and it is not perfect. I guess, that's not what you wanted to do anyway, but it came across as such.

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After looking more into our case of Ecosia I agree, their pledge has little legal binding power so far. As a GmbH they can put out press releases all day and rescind them just as easily. It does not fulfill the specific requirements of an "Auslobung" (a promise to do something), so, yeah, at the moment it's all talk. They may do the walk, but nobody can sue them, if they don't.

A foundation would be different, but also hard to do and not really suited for economic activity, a gGmbH is geared for economic activity in the public interest, which is different again, so they lobby for a new legal form (GmbV) that binds capital as a foundation would but is as easy as a GmbH to set up and run. Like I wrote earlier, there is activity in the legislative to create such a legal form, but Germany being a very thorough representative democracy there are many things to be taken into account and it will take time. Honestly, I'm not really invested in this initiative, so I'll wait and see and wish them all the best.