[Trasmatta]

> Besides this outrage at the US from EU perspective is mind-boggling, for the first time since I can remember US is moving away from imperialist global polices

What's mind boggling is saying that the US is becoming LESS imperialist, when Trump has threatened to annex both Canada and Greenland, and come out in favor of the most imperialist country in Europe.

[rafaelmn]

Thats them orienting themselves to neighboring territory and not that relevant to EU, aside from Greenland. But contrast that with recent past where US was blowing up middle east for oil, drone striking in Africa, building missile shields in Ukraine, etc.

Now its actively looking to pull its bases out of Europe and calling for Europe to arm itself. A positive change for EU in the grand scheme of things.

[Trasmatta]

If the US actually tried to annex Canada, there would be huge ramifications in the EU. And besides, Trump seems more serious about Greenland: in his address to Congress, he said something along the line of "I think we're going to get it, one way or another". Trump is serious about wanting to steal EU land. You seem to be trying to hand wave that away.

And what about his very clear support of Russia? Is that also a positive change for the EU?

[rafaelmn]

Not handwaving anything away, just saying that EU has blame for its weak bargaining power in this issue and that this kind of escalation creates a situation where it is politically acceptable for EU to significantly invest in military. Imagine talking about building up German military 5 years ago and contrast that to a situation where US is talking about removing military bases from there.

I do not think Trump is supporting Russia, it seems like he does not view them as a threat and is very China focused (which is actually scary since antagonizing China can have far worse consequences). He is also focused on cutting spending/reducing inflation pressure from war/sanctions.

Meanwhile EU, and Germany in particular, built their economic growth on cheap Russian energy - and is now bending over backwards to revive it in a world where energy prices are rising. If Europe took Trumps stance of deescalating Ukraine ASAP, wrapping up the war and ending sanctions - our economy would recover much faster. And it would give EU the resources to build a proper military. Even if Ukraine got all of its territory back its going to be a humanitarian disaster zone for decades and a burden on the rest of the country. I really do not see a winning scenario Europe is pushing for in Ukraine.

[avh02]

I agree about the cheap Russian energy, but i disagree that deescalating would get you anywhere with someone like putin on the other side. I'm no politician but it's always been obvious this never stops with him. It's no longer time to roll over (though i think that was a while ago)

[mlrtime]

> It's no longer time to roll over

That should be the EU's position. I'm sure the citizens of the EU countries would pay more to equip their military with enough resources to do so.