[josteink]

> For you to act like it's 100% definitely misinformation rather than a judgement call is disingenuous to the extreme.

I’ll go on the unpopular limb and say that anyone seriously considering the fact that any mainstream persona intentionally did a «Nazi» thing has been consuming too much traditional, commercial media who almost by definition thrives on controversy and clicks. Their core interest is not in facts or honest reporting.

I don’t think HN is the most appropriate place for such discussions, but if anyone seriously wants to accuse Elon Musk of being a «Nazi», I would kindly request that they first define what they mean by that word in 2025, because to me that is honestly not very obvious.

He’s pro Israel and want less government regulation. I’m no expert, but to me that seems anti-Nazi?

[ailun]

I consume very little "traditional media." I haven't forgiven most traditional media for the coverage leading up to the Iraq War and adjusted my reading accordingly going on 20 years now. Cable news was always horrible and I stopped watching it well before then. My opinion is entirely based on the video, Musk's own words on Twitter, and his other actions. I simply don't believe you are genuine here and won't continue the conversation.

[azakai]

> He’s pro Israel and want less government regulation. I’m no expert, but to me that seems anti-Nazi?

Elon obviously does not tick off every box for "Nazi", but he gets so many that a lot of people are understandably horrified.

The salute was, physically, a Nazi salute - as any video comparison clearly shows. And he did it twice. Maybe he didn't "mean" it - maybe it was ironic, maybe it was for kicks, but it obviously was one.

Add to that his support for far-right parties around the world. That includes Germany, and, yes, Israel - while historic Nazis were antisemites, but some far-right people today find common ground with the far-right in Israel, which is exactly who is in power there now.

And Elon is allied with Trump, who got elected after a campaign in which he demonized immigrants as "poisoning the blood" of the nation, said that (legal!) immigrants were "eating the cats and the dogs", etc. etc. Those are classic lines from far-right, fascist governments. Demonizing gay and trans people as well, and Elon has done plenty of that himself.

So, is Elon just "far-right" and not "Nazi"? I'm not sure it's worth debating the difference. Obviously literal card-carrying Nazis are in the past, but the overlap between the modern far-right and historical fascism is enormous.

[zfg]

> the fact that any mainstream persona intentionally did a «Nazi» thing

Here's video of him doing it intentionally. Twice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc

[alabastervlog]

You’d be surprised on the Israel thing. There are not-small sections of white supremacy and neo-Nazism who see Israel as the realization of the kind of ethnostate they think should be the norm. “Yes, hooray Israel! All the Jews we want to expel should go over there! It’s a model state!”

To the rest of this, playing with Nazi shit to “trigger the libs” is a whole thing on the right, and I 100% think it’s what Elon was doing (and why we’ve seen more of it since, from others). The other explanations are bizarre (what the fuck is “my heart goes out to you”? The closest thing I can think of to that sort of gesture doesn’t risk this kind of confusion) and this kind of “trolling” is read as absolutely serious and a show of support by the worst elements of the right.

For my part, play with Nazi shit, you’re a Nazi, and so’s anyone who keeps associating with you. Most of the right didn’t run away from this, so we’ve got a pretty serious Nazi problem now.

[josteink]

> Most of the right didn’t run away from this, so we’ve got a pretty serious Nazi problem now

I appreciate the honest response, I really do.

But right here is where I’ll have to go back to my original comment about imagining problems.

You imagine he did something Nazi like. You imagined there are big swaths of right wing people supporting this imagined Nazi act. You imagine a big Nazi problem.

And it could be all in your head.

Listen to Bill Maher: Focus on becoming a viable alternative, rather than chasing crazy things. The world can only benefit from more viable options at the next election.

[alabastervlog]

It’s. On. Video.

If this were literally the only issue, idk, maybe? But there’s also the broader plan they’re implementing, and the normalization of wildly illegal action from the executive. It’s authoritarianism top to bottom, and they said exactly what they’re aiming to do.

I’m focusing on a lot of things, and the fact that Nazi salutes (it’s on video! He did it twice! Watch that again and tell me what would look different if that were in-fact what he’s doing. What the hell gesture even looks close to what he does, if not that? I find the denial of what we can all plainly see shocking, similar to attempts to deny what happened on January 6th which we watched live) are now “eh, it’s fine” for the Republican Party is not nothing.

Like we’re a multifaceted coup attempt and an “if I lose to Hillary, the 2nd amendment folks can do something about it” in, and we’re in the middle of “shock and awe” (their words) against the government bureaucracy, firing of the people charged with preventing much worse and who did prevent that last time (IGs, generals), 40ish days out from the publicly stated deadline for agency reports on whether Trump should invoke the insurrection act, and the richest dude in the world Nazi salutes on stage twice and people are still going “IDK”. Gimme a fucking break.

But yes the actual problem is I can tell what kind of gesture he very obviously made and find it repugnant. That’s the problem. Not that all the above is going on and people are still entertaining “he just meant ‘my heart goes out to you’, which one expresses with a firm grimace, a slap to the chest and quick extension of the arm, fucking exactly like a Nazi salute” as if it’s not obvious bullshit.