[geysersam]

I'm very impressed and fascinated by the Chinese society and their progress. I love the country and it's rich history. But is it a democracy? No not according to my idea of what that word means.

It's a great country nonetheless, people are free in China, they have their own system and it works for them, good! Why pretend it's a democracy?

[Barrin92]

It's worth debating because China describes itself as such: http://en.moj.gov.cn/2024-03/05/c_967573.htm

The Chinese would say the point of democracy is to translate the will of the people into action, it's to efficiently solve problems that people have, it's in their understanding neither liberal nor representative. In fact they'd likely turn your question around, if democracy is merely a set of procedures or rituals without concerns for the will of the majority, the demos which is in the name, why do you pretend to be one?

[toxik]

What absolute hogwash.

Can you criticize and ridicule your government? No? Not a democracy.

[Barrin92]

There's currently a deep crisis of legitimacy in Western democracy so brushing off criticism as hogwash seems to me pretty ignorant.

The core of democracy cannot be, in the words of the current American president, to be "good television". If all your democracy does is exhaust itself in staging content for social media, television and election campaigns you have inverted what the point of it is. People don't need governments so bad that ridicule becomes a daily norm, they need it to solve material problems and put food on the table. Anything else is simply decadence.

[ever1337]

Criticize to what end? Overturning the entire order? Questioning the legitimacy of the state? That is not allowed. But the ideological diversity within the CPC is broader than US Democrats and Republicans combined. And if you actually had a chance to challenge the real legitimacy of the US state, you would quickly find all your rights disappearing as well. No state actually tolerates that. The US just allows a facade of 'discourse'.

[tehjoker]

It depends on what kind of criticism. Criticism intended to overthrow the government? Maybe not. Criticism about various procedures and goals within the context of the socialist system, very much yes.

[geysersam]

Deciding the best course of action in the interest of others is different from letting go of power and allowing people to collectively make decisions that might go against your own view of what is in their best interest. Without making a judgement I'd call the latter democracy but not the first.

In this distinction there were no references to procedures or rituals, so it cannot only be a question of that.