[jccc]

It seems clear that rayiner is referring to this issue:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43311416

"normalizing relations with Russia and disengaging with the rest of the world military was the goal for us liberals back then"

... and not some expansive idea that Trump is just like 90s Democrats.

[alienthrowaway]

Comparing 90s Russia to 2025 Russia is naive at best. Not even Clinton at his Bill-Clintonest would think of normalizing with Putin's Russia in 2025 had his presidency time-travelled to today.

This is before we look at the cost of "normalizing" relations with Russia, if we assume that's what Trump is doing. Turning back to allies, ripping up treaties and trade deals, threatening annexation, knee-capping your own Military-industrial complex, the list goes on. That's nothing like liberals in the 90s.

[jccc]

You're disagreeing with rayiner. I have no position and nothing to say on this.

You might wish to reply to that specific comment here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43311416

[rayiner]

Yes, I’m referring specifically to the anti-imperialist angle.

There were lots of factions within the anti-imperialist left, but fundamentally there was a distrust of “foreign-policy experts.” And while Trump isn’t a pacifist (and I’m far from one) that’s the part that he really gets.

[alienthrowaway]

The anti-imperialist angle is the same as pro-Ukraine, and opposing Russian imperialism.

It's easy to confuse anti-imperialism with pacifism, but you have to remember the anti-imperialist supported anti-colonial warfare even back in the 80s and 90s. Supporting a war to resist imperialism is completely congruent with anti-imperialism, and explains support for Ukraine.

[rayiner]

That’s not anti-imperialism, it’s an argument for maintaining and using the american empire to enforce borders on the other side of the world.

And your same logic would have gotten the US involved in the korean and vietnam wars as well. How do you distinguish those?

[alienthrowaway]

I know you (rayiner) know how colonialism works, and you know the belligerents in Korea and Vietnam and which side of the imperialism coin they fall.

I do not believe equating Vietnam with Ukraine is something you can do in good faith.

Edit: America has remained an empire through a willingness to meddle far from home unde the banner of "protecting American interests". Watching a so-called conservative president dismantle the American empire is startling, seeing the rank-and-file fall in line with narry a dissention is almost unnerving. Anti-imperialist Americans must be having mixed and conflicting feelings right now.

[Jtsummers]

Just to clarify again (saw this in another comment), the belligerents in the Korean War were the North Koreans when they attacked South Korea. This is what led to the US and others joining.

[alienthrowaway]

That's an oversimplification of an already complex history of Korea[1], which is why I said equating Vietnam to Ukraine is a disservice, which offers a clearer contrast.

1. The whole Korean peninsula was a colony of Japan, and was divided between the US and Russia after WWII. Both sets of governments claimed to be the the legitimate authority over the entire region. It ended up being a proxy war - so not comparable to Ukraine for a different reason, unless one thinks the war in Ukraine is a proxy war - which completely takes away the agency and sovereignty of the people of Ukraine, and will be provable via a natural experiment over the next days as the US has stopped its involvement, the the war is continuing.