[namshe]

Where is "here?"

I think you're making a couple of shaky assumptions. You're assuming civil society will stand up to Trump. This seems increasingly unlikely to happen.

Also, in the military, there are really serious consequences if you don't do what you're told. It's not the same world as the civilian world. So if an enlisted soldier gets told to suit up for a mission, they'll do it.

Think of the Ukraine war. Many of the Russian soldiers thought they were on an exercise that day, they didn't realize it was a for-real invasion until they got the order.

Lastly, invoking that less than half of Americans voted for this just doesn't mean very much. Trump could have been kept out of office if enough people had gone and voted for Kamala Harris...but they didn't. The people who voted for Trump, hey, say what you like about them, but at least they went to the polls.

This mess is 100% the karma of all Americans.

[toomuchtodo]

> This mess is 100% the karma of all Americans.

I strongly disagree. I did not vote for this shit show, nor did many others, and I have no control over those who did.

> The people who voted for Trump, hey, say what you like about them, but at least they went to the polls.

Voting to burn the place down is not a participation trophy.

[namshe]

I did my part and voted for Harris, I thought maybe she had a chance. I knew it was very likely that Trump would win. That said, couldn't we all have done more?

For example, Trump and Obama have a few interesting things in common. They both became President. And they both defeated Hillary Clinton in order to get there. In 2008, the real race was between the Democrats - Bush was so unpopular it didn't matter who the GOP ran, the Dems were going to take it (in my opinion that's why McCain was allowed to get the nomination). America had the chance to do something really different multiple times and put a woman in charge but it never happened. Now it will almost certainly never happen.

In terms of voting to burn the place down, I think that's really the point a lot of folks have missed. When the existing system doesn't serve you at all, why vote to preserve it? Governments have failed us, totally. Both parties have kowtowed to corporate interests for years and things like NAFTA have had the effects that were warned about in the 90s. Now we are reaping the results.

Very sad state of affairs.

[bruce511]

I agree that the governments of both parties have underserved most people.

Some of the reason for that is structural. The president has limited power, and congress has been too evenly balanced for decades to really get anything significant done.

If you look at what Trump is doing now it's all things that bypass congress- he knows at least half of them will toe the line and that's enough. When you set a violent mob on a group, and they give you a pass, well, that tells you what you need yo know.

For voters who believe that "it doesn't matter, they're all bad", well I guess we're about to find out. Seems to me there's a difference between the parties, but what do I know...

To the Palestinian supporters who voted for Trump 'cause they didn't like Biden's approach, well let us know how that turns out for you.

The reality is that a lot of Americans like Trump policies - like tarrifs, deportation, gutting govt regulations and so on. Clearly at least half think this is the road to be on.

It's a pity the other half is going along for the ride.