[dang]

The alternative is to allow this site to burn itself to a crisp, an irreversible outcome.

Perhaps you think the this-time-is-differentness of this time is different enough to justify it, but (a) none of us can actually know that in advance, (b) the impact of getting it wrong is existential (if one can use that word about a relatively trivial thing like an internet forum), (c) people have often said such things in the past and it's clear that we were right not to pull the plug when they did, and (d) my job hasn't changed.

[cratermoon]

OP here: if stories like these will cause HN to burn to a crisp, it's worth talking 'why?'. We all know YC is a crypto backer, and if crypto is the problem, then maybe HN is part of the problem.

[dang]

It hasn't got to do with cryptocurrency—it's the same with any major ongoing topic (MOT), especially when the stories are sensational, inflammatory, and/or divisive. This is about internet forum dynamics and our attempt to have a forum that's optimized for intellectual curiosity [1]. To achieve that means we have to limit the amount of repetition [2].

If you want further explanation, the links in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43272671 should take you to plenty. If you read some of that and then have a question I haven't answered yet, I'd be happy to take a crack at it.

[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

[2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

[cratermoon]

Question: is Gary Tan willing to make a public statement about YC's stance regarding the propose Crypto Reserve how CoinBase will benefit? In particular, addressing Brian Armstrong's position that Bitcoin and only Bitcoin should be in the reserve? https://finance.yahoo.com/news/coinbases-brian-armstrong-thi...

[dang]

This is unrelated, as I imagine my GP comment explains.

[dredmorbius]

So, let's say HN does burn to a crisp, let's take that as given.

- What is an HN in the world in which we seem to be headed?

- What is the possibility, however slim, that HN might serve as a bulwark against that world? Is that a die worth throwing?

- What is HN's, and YC's, culpability in creating that world? I'm looking at social media, crypto, AI, AdTech, FinTech, Thiel, Musk, Andreesen, and who knows who else here, as well as general enshittification and authoritarianisation of the Internet (surveillance, propaganda, disinformation, censorship, targeted manipulation,[1] kompromat, the intertwingled and self-reinforcing surveillance capitalism/state/anarchism, killbots, etc.).

- What if any sufficient difference would change your mind? Do you, dang, have any personal moral limits at which you'd change your moderator stance, or simply wash your hands and walk away? Or not?

I borrowed Anubis's scales, and it seems to me HN compares poorly to the feather of the liberal social democratic experiment.

Turning HN into a Nazi bar[2] is also an irreversible outcome. As is turning the polity in which it resides into a fascist state.

Scylla, Charybdis. How steer you helmsman?

________________________________

Notes:

1. See: <https://archive.is/8ceqI>

2. A question I've pondered for a while. Toy poll suggests at the least a perception issue: <https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/112922175293010508>.

[AnimalMuppet]

What is HN in the world in which we seem to be headed? One of the last places where one can have a relatively sane conversation.

In the world we're headed into, truth is gone. Making an honest judgment based on your best evaluation of the evidence available to you is gone. You will parrot the current insanity that some authoritarian demands, or suffer the consequences. In that world, we really need HN, to keep our sanity, and to avoid the complete destruction of our moral character.

And if you really think that's the world we're headed to, do you think converting HN into all-anti-Trump-all-the-time is really going to be the difference between ending up there and not ending up there?

[dredmorbius]

Just noting: I'm giving this some thought, it's a good question.

Though for the most part, the short answer is that HN would be either irrelevant, irredeemably corrupted itself, and/or a tool for the abusive power of that world.

Which is to say that fighting against that outcome is paramount.

The evil that is to be fought is far more than just one person. But by fighting that orientation (it's not an ideology, it's simple power-lust) is essential.

HN has had its critics going back to its origins. I'm tending to think jwz was right.

I've heard from others who were themselves prominent on HN that they're finding the site no longer tolerable, and I ask myself whether or not it is at least weekly, if not more often. And as much as I've admired much of what dang does here, there's some which makes my hair stand up. Including what he has, and has not, said in this thread.

(This is only a partial answer, and I hope to give it more consideration and justice soon.)