[Juliate]

You're debating two different things, two different experiences

Creation is a human activity, charged with emotions, efforts, which are their own rewards, as much as the end-product, which is invested of this human (sometimes collective and not instant) effort and intention and creative loopbacks. Let's call that some kind of history (because the process did happen).

Generation short-circuits that entirely, as it happens at non-human speeds, and non-human scales. It's something _else_ entirely. You do get an end-product. It may be fun and useful for some; it sometimes is. However, you don't get the process, the collaboration and the inner transformation it comes with.

Adding: with two different end-products, the issue is then how they are perceived, received, appreciated and valued by those not "in the know" of how they were made. And that is both an artistic, aesthetic and economic problem. Generating soulless shit that isn't invested with a human sentiment miseducates people and destroys taste.

[jononor]

I agree with your overall description of creation. But I do not agree that generative models are something else entirely. They are tools, and while their affordances do influence what people do with it, in the end the responsibility is on the creator. You can make "soulless shit" or "thoughtful commentary" or anything else you put your mind to, by using these tools in combination with all the existing ones.

Models that are oriented around one-shot, text-only direction are pretty limiting in creative flow. This will hopefully continue to improve.

[jimbokun]

> in the end the responsibility is on the creator.

Bullshit. These "tools" replace the creator, who now has no meaningful input to what gets created.

The composer is the AI. Not the person who spent 10 seconds typing a prompt.

[jononor]

To make what I consider a halfway decent song with these current easiest-to-use services (like Suno and Udiio) takes a few hours in my experience. To get there one has to work with the text, the song structure, find a decent style, and then do corrections on sections where the models goes off track. To make something that is closer to "good", I would go and re-record all the lead vocals myself, and then mix this in a DAW.