[rayiner]

Don’t randomly accuse people of “sophistry.” Zelensky is publicly demanding a security guarantee, and sprung that on Trump at the meeting. I didn’t say there couldn’t be other support, but the security guarantee is what I’m talking about because that seems to be critical.

[Kim_Bruning]

If I have my dates right,

Macron (president of France) visited the White House on Feb 24 and pointed out that security guarantees would be important and that the US could play an important role providing those guarantees. This discussion ended amicably. [1]

Starmer (Prime Minister of the UK) visited Trump on Feb 27 , and besides handing over an invitation from King Charles, also discussed the fact that there would need to be security guarantees in any particular Ukraine deal. This discussion also ended amicably. [2]

Zelensky (President of Ukraine) then visited on Feb 28 and reiterated the points his colleagues had made. This time something went wrong. [3]

[1] https://apnews.com/article/trump-macron-ukraine-russia-starm...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/27/trump-starme...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Trump%E2%80%93Zelenskyy_m...

[libertine]

What went wrong is assuming there were good faith talks in the first two instances with Macron and Starmer.

It isn't by chance that even after the talks with Macron, Trump tried to lie in front of him only to be corrected by Macron in the oval office.

Even after being correct, and continues to spin the same lie during the Zelensky talks and after.

The only thing that went wrong was assuming that Trump ever had Ukraine interest in sight, and not Russia interests.

What we witnessed isn't anything new or shocking to anyone who has been following this event.

This had been a recurring behavior from this administration, where there's a theatrical display to show that there might be some understanding, with leaders putting their credibility in the to say there's some alignment, only to have Trump the next day stating the opposite or something completely unaligned with previous statements.

Let's hope this was the the final straw, and just accept that Russia managed to capture the US. Now it's about protecting this from happening elsewhere - Twitter, and other platforms, including alternative media should start to be banned in Europe ASAP.

[maxerickson]

Why are you saying it's random?

Trump isn't meeting the existing obligations and you are talking about how problematic Ukraine's condition for new agreements would be.

[rayiner]

We have no obligation to support Ukraine under that memorandum.

[_DeadFred_]

Under your interpretation.