[cturner]

Solar does not generate continuous supply. If you want to propose putting solar panels on everything you need a solid strategy for storing the energy. This is an unsolved problem in our time, and there is a lot of distraction in wishful thinking - talk of kinetic capture or hydrogen conversion that does not stack up.

[scubbo]

> you need a solid strategy for storing the energy. This is an unsolved problem in our time

Earnest question - why isn't this solved by the fact that batteries exist? Are you saying that there is some technical/physical problem at-scale with storing _that much_ energy, or that there is some logistical problem with distributing and managing the batteries (ensuring the right ones are discharging at the right times), or that they are simply too expensive or specialist for us to build quickly enough right now, or...?

[adgjlsfhk1]

Batteries alone are too expensive to solve the problem well. The solution will be a complicated mix of solutions. Current batteries are excelent for short term variation (<1s). New Grid scale battery designs (e.g. flow batteries or molten salt batteries) are likely to make batteries pretty good for the <8 hour range. Hydro is unbeatable in the day to year range. That said, a lot of the solution will also likely come from demand shaping. Hot water tanks can be heated, and homes can be heated and cooled extra when there is excess power, charge EVs during work hours rather than overnight etc. There will be thousands of minor tweaks to take full advantage of solar. The power is cheap enough that it's worth reworking our entire economy around it.

[cturner]

Agree that (pumped) hydro is good where it is practical.

You make a claim about reworking our economy,

> The power is cheap enough that it's worth reworking our entire economy around it.

Can you substantiate this? Would it be fair to describe it as a utopian claim?

[danans]

> Would it be fair to describe it as a utopian claim?

In the case of water heating (and water based space heating also) it's already here in terms of technology and availability. Heat pump storage water heaters are now widely available. The problem is that they can only be phased in as fast as existing gas water heaters reach EOL.

Domestic water heating comprises almost 18% of household energy use in the United States.

[scubbo]

Very much appreciate the thoughtful reply, thank you!

[cturner]

Combination of all the points you make, yes.

[adgjlsfhk1]

If you can make 4 hours of power a day completely free, industry shifts massively. Rather than making a $1m, 90% efficient machine that operates 24/7, you can make a $50k, 20% efficient machine that you turn off when there isn't sun.

[cturner]

We are talking about a form of power that is not free. Solar panels and installation have initial costs and refresh costs. Your 90%/20% notes are a hypothetical, and may apply to some settings, but I expect they will be niche. People want to heat their homes, and boil kettles and run webservers.

I have no problem with aesthetics like *punk. But when these aesthetics influence public policy we end up with dysfunction, like countries that have lots of electric vehicles being powered by new coal power plants. The original post said our era will be looked down on for not covering buildings with solar panels. I don’t think that is correct.

[adgjlsfhk1]

solar isn't free but it is the cheapest form of electricity we have (LCOE), and it's cost fell by a factor of 4 in the past decade. people absolutely want to hear their homes and boil water, but both of those are energy demands that are easy to time shift. any reasonably built home in the past decade is insulated well enough that you can only heat it during the day and keep it at a comfortable temperature. similarly, hot water tanks can be heated hours in advance when there's plenty of spare electricity. this obviously doesn't apply to all forms of energy demand, but heating (air and water) is the majority of consumer demand and is easily shiftable.