[TrackerFF]

One thing I never understood - what's the plan for these accelerationists / techno monarchs if the "plebs" simply decide to say no, and rather just cut off their heads?

If history has shown one thing, it is that it is much easier for the working/lower class to overthrow the upper class, than the opposite.

[npodbielski]

Probably they do not even think about it. Have big secluded houses, lot of security, armed guards, cameras etc. They probably do not think about what if power grid will be destroyed/disabled, without power most of security will not work. Armed guards most probably will not throw away their life for them because they have their own life and families to think about when attacked by hundreds of people. Or think that they will be protected by police or military. But those are also rather common folk so probably would rather side with people instead of those techno-nobles. Finally they might think that they will be able to run with helicopter or plane. But you need people to operate those too. And those people may not exactly be willing to help at that time. Or just the road to the airport may be blocked. In short I would say that they just do not comprehand the idea of world do not working in they favour. Of people not willing to do what they want. But the get to that point life for vast number of people would have to get really unbearable.

[Philpax]

If they reach their goal, they won't need a lower class, and they can address that problem however they see fit. A soldier might refuse to fire on their own side, but an autonomous drone won't.

[npodbielski]

It is very curious to me that people think of technology in such magic way. For those drones work you need hundreds of people to operate that, monitor, maintain, make repairs stock the warehouse with spare parts etc. Look at military, how many people they need to operate all that complex machinery. 'How about AI controlling those drones' sure but then you just move maintaince of all of it to slightly different place. Probably even sabotage of AI datacenter would be much easier than autonoums or remote drones operated by hundreds of people.

[kjkjadksj]

You can create warfighting machines today capable of unspeakable horrors to another person if you merely give those engineers a suburban house in northern virginia in a good school district, evidently. Now imagine a future where the offer is not only that idyllic beltway suburban experience but also the realization that not taking that offer throws you in with the dogs in the lawless parts of the country that this autocratic government authority withdrew from over lack of profit motive. You’d probably do everything in your power to keep your head down and look like a good little engineer to master so your daughters don’t have to face a roving gang of perverts.

[Jensson]

> For those drones work you need hundreds of people to operate that, monitor, maintain, make repairs stock the warehouse with spare parts etc

Not when AI bots do all of those things. This is the point, once that is reached the working class no longer has any sway over the upper classes and can be wiped out by an autonomous drone swarm that was built by an autonomous drone factory network.

[npodbielski]

I think we lack many tools to achieve that. Really silly example do we have autonoums drones that can turn on electrical fuse. You have hundreds of those in any factory. Or even simpler: can robot change light bulb? One can say that you do not need those in automated factory, which would meaybe the case but I think it would be much easier to have simple external light instead of equipping each automaton with their own light instead. With more more and more complex machines the maintenance of those grows rather exponentially. Add to it miniaturisation and you have modern electronic parts like SOC computers and gpus - they are very hard to rapair and most of the time just get replaced - because it is easier. Can you create autonomous factories with such technology?

I do not think so. The whole process would have to be redesigned from the bottom up. And I mean everything, gathering resources, refinement of those, packaging, transport, assembly of more complex parts, energy distribution... Everything basically to operable by not humans but by some kind of unified autonomous drones of similar design. And those drones would have to be part of the same industrial process so made and maintained with similar drones. This is not easy to achieve within bounds of our current civilisation. Probably something as simple as regular screw would have to be redesigned or replaced. I was trying to teach my kid to tight one of those not so long enough and it is not such easy thing to do for small child. Would autonomous drone would perform better? If specialised maybe. But you can't have hundreds of specialised drone designs if you want to build whole civilisation with them. After all human beings are mostly the same and we managed to built what we have now.

[Philpax]

Humanoid robots are coming:

- Figure: https://youtu.be/Z3yQHYNXPws

- Unitree: https://youtu.be/iULi4-qz22I

- 1X: https://youtu.be/uVcBa6NXAbk

and those are just the ones I know about. I'm sure the US and Chinese militaries are weighing up their options, too.

Of course, they don't need to be humanoid in the end: that just helps them maximise compatibility today. As they take over more of the process, they can specialise and scale up. Once you have robots working the entire process, the sky's the limit.

[npodbielski]

yes, I am aware. Maybe I was not able to communicate my opinion on that matter clearly, so yet me reiterate: does any of those robots can replicate? Can any of this robot survive in harsh industrial environment without maintenance for long? I.e. usually home appliances have IP code 22 [0], in industrial complexes it is IP 44 as far as I remember. Outside you need IP 65 or 66. I doubt any of those robots have anything higher then 20. And how about batteries?

I do not think we are everywhere near self-sufficient robotics.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_code

[alienthrowaway]

> Not when AI bots do all of those things

AI bots aren't close to doing all those things, but I'm glad the billionaires bought into the hype and tipped their hand prematurely.

[kjkjadksj]

Historically the ruling class never gave a shit about what the masses thought. This is why the french killed their divine king in the late 1700s, the king did not think he was so hated where this would be possible.

Today, the equation is flipped. Rather than ignoring the masses, the rich have been indoctrinating them for 3-4 generations now. Pacifying them. Removing their own ability to generate their own thoughts and replacing them with thoughts purchased and dispersed through advertising channels.

On top of that westerners haven’t been truly poor in about a hundred years. We allege that we can just go back to french revolution sentiments where we are all poor and stealing, well that is a lot harder if you have never had to steal or be good with a knife in your life thus far. The western mind and body have both been coddled. They are not the grizzly parisian of 1789 in a Phrygian cap. They might have never even thrown a punch before.

Given this, why should the rich be worried? We are cattle in this generation, not wild bulls.

[WinstonSmith84]

the solution to this "problem" was mentioned: "get rid off the free press, dismantle USAID - this has already happened. NGOs and Universities are next."

History never had such powerful tech as we have now (or soon). Look at how it works in China, now add on top of this some AI which can better monitor your thoughts / education / etc. Future generations will be better "formatted" than we are

[AstralStorm]

The only way any of this works is if they have enough violence with no recourse against it to enforce their way of doing things. Otherwise you can literally just ignore them if you sufficiently think outside the box.

Who needs companies when you have communities? Who needs a central dictatorship or a party if you have a faster and more efficient democracy? State controlled media? We can have better decentralized ones.

The key thing is that the alternative has to be obviously better.

[nuancebydefault]

Centralized is much easier to set up as decentralized. You are on HN just by accident?

Same goes for democracy, it is a very complex system. That is why it is always under threat.

The way I see it, first tribes were fighting. In middle ages, cities were fighting each other. Later states started to fight. Finally we have a handful of superpowers fighting. It is part of globalization and earth is getting too small to scale that mechanism further.

[scarmig]

Some of them have very limited, anthropocentric visions of a world where they live as gods, empowered by godlike technology.

The more insightful ones see the end goal as one where humanity has been obliterated, with the successor expanding through the light cone, devouring all in its path. The (unspoken) rallying cry: "They will replace us." Naturally, this isn't a good popular slogan, so they ride along and let useful idiots do their thing.

[lionkor]

Hey Gemini, where can I buy guillotines?

[gmerc]

That’s where drones and robots come in.

[Epa095]

It helps when you control the flow of information though, makes it less likely that enough will day no.

Oligarchy, feudslism, dictatorships and other non-free forms of government is definitely not necessarily doomed to fail. Unfortunately.

I fear that with modern technology, controlling the masses is even easier, and we loose democracy. If not forever, at least for a long time.

[d0gsg0w00f]

You forget that it was blue collar populism that won this election. It's the upper class liberals that are clutching their pearls.

[hnthrow90348765]

Leave for another country, enjoy the rest of their days in luxury. Truly an excruciating sentence. /s

There's a lot more logistical options for them these days. You'd only catch them if they made a serious blunder.