[inetknght]

> I have worked at plenty of places where analytics data is used to drive decision making.

Plenty of places mask violating peoples' privacy as "analytics data" to drive decisions about how to manipulate those and other people.

> surely we can all agree that a data driven approach is better than gut instinct.

Generally, sure, but not always. How you get that data matters. Violating someone's privacy is unethical. Violating someone's privacy to make data-driven decisions is still unethical. Telemetry without knowledge or consent to it is violating privacy.

[shalmanese]

OK, but how does XCode conceivably "manipulate people". Apple's privacy promise was always as rooted in its business model as it was its technology. It says we make money primarily from selling you hardware and paid services so our interests are far more aligned with yours than ad supported free services.

[bolognafairy]

What’s your actual point, dude?

> Plenty of places mask violating peoples' privacy as "analytics data" to drive decisions about how to manipulate those and other people.

Are you talking about a different group of places? Or is this your view of places that collect telemetry?

Do you use Xcode? Are you aware of Apple’s telemetry disclosures? How do you feel that Xcode telemetry has ever or could ever be used to manipulate people? How do you feel peoples privacy has been violated? Do you want to re-state your point in a more concrete way instead of saying something that basically amounts to “I’m upset, so it’s bad!”

I hate rent-a-crowd privacy people.

[inetknght]

> What’s your actual point, dude?

My point is that telemetry violates developers' privacy. Whether that's in a consumer-facing app or in a developer-facing Xcode, it's still violating privacy and therefore unethical to use for data-driven decisions.

> is this your view of places that collect telemetry?

Yes

> Do you use Xcode?

No, because I don't use macOS.

> Are you aware of Apple’s telemetry disclosures?

Are you? How many developers using Xcode are aware of those disclosures? How many developers using Xcode are forced to use Xcode by their employer and therefore cannot have reasonably agreed to anything?

> How do you feel that Xcode telemetry has ever or could ever be used to manipulate people? How do you feel peoples privacy has been violated?

Monitor who builds what kinds of applications and then use that information to decide what products Apple should focus on. Monitor who tries to compile. Tie their name to "security" or "authenticity". Monitor how those built applications are used or distributed, and then change compilation processes to suit Apple's walled garden.

> Do you want to re-state your point in a more concrete way instead of saying something that basically amounts to “I’m upset, so it’s bad!”

My point was already plenty enough concrete. You just simply decided to ignore it because you hate privacy-focused people, and summarily dismiss it as "being upset" instead of addressing any of the issues that were brought up.