[smgit]

Its like expecting farm animals to keep track of how the farm works, as the farm gets more and more sophisticated in animal domestication and exploitation. The individual action argument was weak 10 years ago and its worthless today.

The is a Systemic problem. Doesn't matter what the individuals do.

[ty6853]

The trouble is people thinking it can be fixed with the system. I've been to a few dictatorships, none of them had the slightest clue what I was doing because the government was too poor and distracted with stuff like militias at their door to take much interest in what I was doing.

Safety comes from dysfunctional governance. Surveillance is a property of functional governance. Embrace disfunction.

[lazide]

Eh, that’s overly rosy.

Plenty of ineffective dictatorships will happily line you up against the wall with bogus surveillance. And shitty surveillance states will happily fake surveillance or data to look more effective.

The danger with these types of State organs is they are constantly trying to justify their existence and cover up their mistakes, and if you can be thrown in the gears, some places are happy to do that.

[potato3732842]

>Plenty of ineffective dictatorships will happily line you up against the wall with bogus surveillance. And shitty surveillance states will happily fake surveillance or data to look more effective.

Sure, but that's the exception. Governments have a pyramid of needs too. Governments don't throw a bunch of resources on things with poor returns, like shooting people who haven't done much wrong, when there's easier fruit to pick. Sure, you can go full jackboot on specific issues here and there but that's not sustainable on a "will I retire in peace of will I hang from the overpass" timeline. And even if you're the dictator's henchman and want to go down some rabbit hole of killing people you don't like the the fact that the dictator may have you shot for waste or as a sacrifice when that provokes unrest or dissatisfaction among the people generally keeps the government in line. And the government really doesn't want to be killing people because it needs people to do things and pay taxes.

Look at all the historically violent dictatorships that lasted a long time and for many leaders. They all provide for their people generally. They might not be competitive absolutely but they keep things generally moving in a positive direction decade over decade and keep the country doing at least as well as its peers. The ones that don't tend to fall apart after a couple bad leaders.

I really shouldn't need to be explaining this. This is how every European monarchy worked just with god and birthright as justification instead of backroom dealing and politics and false elections.

[ty6853]

Im sure when I fought for the YPG Assad might have liked that, unfortunately all the bogus surveillance in the world is no use when your army cannot enforce their borders or sovereignty. In any case I saw guys with AKs posting to Facebook, no bogus stuff needed, they were already publicly providing all the evidence needed for the death penalty without any worry of being prosecuted.

[lazide]

I don’t think we’re disagreeing. My point is that while those folks shooting AKs in the air are doing their thing, some other random putz that never did anything like that is probably getting nailed to the wall by the same system.

And unlike an effective/accurate surveillance system, you can’t be safe by just not being the AK weilding guys. In fact, sometimes you’re safer because you’re more dangerous, and they’d rather find someone easier to pick on.

Third world places aren’t what they are because of a lack of rules or systems (usually), but rather because the rules and systems aren’t fit for purpose and produce the wrong outcomes.

[ty6853]

Ah yes absolutely. Under no system is anyone safe if they're unable to bear arms to protect themselves/family, they will be systematically vulnerable or vulnerable to the next bandit. This just becomes more visible under disfunction.

[BobaFloutist]

I question your priorities.