[fuzzfactor]

>Gorbachev’s reforms began with the aim of resuscitating the Soviet economy. But instead they brought ruin, destroying the Soviet economy along with Soviet state capacity. This did not occur because Gorbachev was “helpless” and trapped by entrenched interests, but rather because he proved to be a well-intentioned reformer with great power that was used in a reckless manner.

[ipv6ipv4]

The collapse of the Soviet Union as it was was inevitable. Gorbachev recognized it and tried to do something about it. Given the gargantuan challenge, Gorbachev's odds of success were not great to begin with. At least he was wise enough to shepherd its demise peacefully. In any case, the world without the Soviet Union is undoubtedly a better place.

[fuzzfactor]

Gorbachev said that one of the things that shocked and demoralized him was when he visited Houston and took a trip to one of the typical supermarkets, a locally owned one not part of any nationwide chain or anything.

When he saw that average Americans were enjoying consumer choices well beyond anything the highest echelons in the USSR could attain, he was never quite the same after that.

[ido]

I believe you are thinking about Yeltsin (unless both visited a Texas supermarket and were surprised to discover how well stocked it was).

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/trending...

[throw-the-towel]

Are you sure that was Gorbachev and not Yeltsin? There's even a famous photo of the latter at an American store.

[UncleOxidant]

> In any case, the world without the Soviet Union is undoubtedly a better place.

Is it, though? Putin's Russia is no better than the Soviet Union - in some ways worse. It's essentially a mafia state run by one thug. One could imagine a different scenario where Gorbachev would have been able to land the plane in a bit more of a controlled fashion and stayed around to transition to something that would look more like a European democracy - but of course, things got way too chaotic for him to stay on.

[darthrupert]

For those who lived in the occupied areas like Poland, it certainly is.

[euroderf]

> in a bit more of a controlled fashion

The guiding intellectual principle in the US at the time w.r.t. the economy of the ex-USSR was "You can't cross a canyon in two leaps". This was what passed for intelligent thought.

[_DeadFred_]

Imagine if the US hadn't gone in and come up with 'voucher privatization' which essentially created the oligarchs (and which in my mind seems to have been designed so that investment groups could take over but the mechanism got co-opted by the oligarchs).

[Muromec]

That happened in all other countries too. Ukraine had oligarchs, Chezchia and Romania have them. Its just russian oligarchs got hold on infinite money glitch which is oil production and the country overcorrected by going full dictatorship

[Muromec]

It transitioned into a demicracy a-okay, the problem was -- russians never had any kind of democracy and it quickly descended into oligarchy, from which they overcorrected to dictatorship quite willingly.

Every other ussr and soviet-aligned country got it going somehow.

[pqtyw]

> into a demicracy a-okay

Well considering that Yeltsin had to order the army to shell the Russian parliament less than 2 years after the USSR was dissolved that somewhat arguable.

[Yeul]

Nobody cares about democracy though. People want jobs, supermarkets, houses and cars.

The Americans actually understood this which is why they focused on the economy when they helped Japan and Europe to rebuild after the war.

[gottorf]

> a well-intentioned reformer with great power that was used in a reckless manner

The road to hell...

[hinkley]

Eastern Europe has almost twice the population of Russia.

Would anyone here care to assert that more people would be better off today if the Wall had not fallen?

[soco]

Eastern Europe is not one state, just as the European Union is not a state. The consequences are visible: the way forward needs endless negotiations and gets endless adjustments, stuff gets implemented slowly and chaotic, so really, the comparison cannot hold.

[hinkley]

Quite a bit of it was in the USSR or under their thumb.