[aprilthird2021]

Instead multimillionaire property owners in California pay no property tax because they're old and people who just bought a house with young kids pay all the tax. Most regressive tax system ever devised, designed to keep us underpopulated and our government services underfunded

[sroussey]

That’s not the purpose. The purpose is for people to age in place. Not have to move out of state at 75 because taxes on your home skyrocketed. Which is what happened and the population voted in a proposition to stop it. Yes, it had unintended consequences like all government things.

[bobthepanda]

If we wanted to keep old people in homes we could've written a tailored program for old people.

As it stands, Prop 13 was sold as that, but also essentially used a sledgehammer on a thumbtack, because it applies to any property regardless of the age of the property owner, and also to commercial and industrial property. Not to mention, old people who want to downsize (say, into a home without stairs to fall down) can't afford to because of the massive jump in property taxes that would entail.

[sroussey]

As for commercial… it’s more complex but it’s interesting.

Often, anything that is not a starter office or retail, the renter pays the taxes. This is usually called triple net but lots of time it’s true even when not NNN.

So you raise the costs on the renter.

Take a 60yr old retail center owned by the same family and the rents are likely lower than market due to the buildings age (not necessarily true everywhere).

Positives:

lower costs across the board. Some businesses that just don’t seem like they can make enough do just fine.

No forced gentrification. If you raise taxes above rents, well no use having that building even exist. Tearing it down would be cheaper than open and charging rent. Or tear down and rebuild. Often with national tenants. No mom and pop in new construction last few decades.

Apartments rent on old building will go up… unless rent controlled. In which case, maybe no longer be a landlord. Remove those units.

Negatives:

long term owners benefit vs short term flippers.

General feeling of unfairness. I find this stronger in residential than commercial though.

Some commercial should be torn down. Very much an opinion though. Some call stuff blight and others character.

ADA and lots of stuff is grandfathered in so lots of stuff with character is not ADA compliant. There are reasons why stuff built today all looks the same and somewhat soulless.

BTW: new buildings, etc, get imitate hike to todays taxes even if the land does not.

[bobthepanda]

Prop 13 hasn’t really solved the housing crisis.

The way to reduce it is to build enough to relieve demand, at which point there would be less pressure forcing valuations sky high.

[sroussey]

That’s not true. The law was altered so people can downsize if they are very certain age.

[antognini]

Wouldn't it make more sense for people to downsize to smaller homes as they age? Instead we have incentivized empty nesters to stay in huge homes with 5 bedrooms while young families have to cram into 1 bedroom condos.

[sroussey]

That’s why they changed the law to allow for this.

[aprilthird2021]

The effect is the purpose. Everything else is marketing.

A city 15 minutes outside one of the richest cities in the entire world is closing down schools. Know why? The old people who live there and their landed gentry children who inherit their title (I mean ability to legally contribute no tax) from their elders don't pay any property tax, so the schools have no money, and anyone who moves in has to foot the entire bill. Only people who can do that put their kids in private schools. And on and on.

So, so many of the QoL issues people suffer in California are because of this prop, and people defend it with this senior folks exemption. I'm sorry. If you become a multimillionaire sitting on your bum, the government should not offload your tax burden onto other people's because you're old. It's too destructive to society to do that.

[triceratops]

> Not have to move out of state at 75 because taxes on your home skyrocketed

Taxes don't go up 600% year over year. And if Prop 13 didn't disincentivize new construction, taxes wouldn't skyrocket in the first place.

[ajmurmann]

Intentions of policies don't matter. Outcomes do

[mionhe]

They matter when people are specifically discussing them, which is the case here.

[ajmurmann]

Sorry, I had to reread the grandparent and you are out course correct