[okl]

Seems to me that everyone is focused on the technical merits, not weighing the effort of learning a new programming language/toolchain/ecosystem for the maintainers appropriately.

Mastering a new programming language to a degree that makes one a competent maintainer is nothing to sneeze at and some maintainers might be unwilling to based on personal interests/motivation, which I'd consider legitimate position.

I think its important to acknowledge that not everyone may feel comfortable talking about their lack of competence/disinterest.

[oconnor663]

This is exactly the position Christoph Hellwig took in the original email chain that kicked off the current round of drama: https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/20250131075751.GA1672.... I think it's fair to say that this position is getting plenty of attention.

[dralley]

The opposing view is that drivers written in Rust using effectively foolproof APIs require far less maintainer effort to review. Yes, it might be annoying for Christoph to have to document & explain the precise semantics of his APIs and let a Rust contributor know when something changes, but there is a potential savings of maintainer time down the line across dozens of different drivers.

[jenadine]

> Yes, it might be annoying for Christoph to have to document & explain the precise semantics of his APIs and let a Rust contributor know when something changes,

Don't he need to do that anyway for every user of his code?

I guess the point is that it he is able to review the code of every driver made in C using his API, but he can't review the Rust interface himself.

[baq]

He doesn’t want to. He’s smart enough to be able to.

[KerrAvon]

Acknowledged, but said maintainers need to learn to cope with the relentless advance of technology. Any software engineer with a long career needs to be able to do this. New technology comes along and you have to adapt, or you become a fossil.

It's totally fine on a personal level if you don't want to adapt, but you have to accept that it's going to limit your professional options. I'm personally pretty surly about learning modern web crap like k18s, but in my areas of expertise, I have a multi-decade career because I'm flexible with languages and tools. I expect that if AI can ever do what I do, my career will be over and my options will be limited.

[BlackFly]

To play devils advocate, for every technology that comes along with an advancement a handful come along with broken promises. People love to make fun of Javascript for that, but the only difference there is the cadence. Senior developers know this and know that the time and energy needed to separate the wheat from the chaff is exhausting. The advancements are not relentless it is the churn which is.

That being said, rust comes with technical advances and also with enough of a community that the non technical requirements are already met. There should be enough evidence for rational but stubborn people to accept it as a way forward

[manmal]

Totally tangential, but since I just recently found this out: character-number-character, like [k8s, a16z, a11y] means that 8/16/11 characters in the middle are replaced by their count. I was wondering why kubernetes would be such a long word, when you wrote k18s. Maybe it was just a typo on your end, and this system is totally obvious.

[layer8]

These are called numerical contractions [0] and are fairly well-known, in particular i18n and a11y.

Another one that used to be well-known is s9y for Serendipity [1].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeronym#Numerical_contractio...

[1] https://s9y.org/

[manmal]

I brought it up because GP had k18s.

[sophacles]

It's kubernetes, and either a typo or a muscle memory confusion with i18n (internationalization).

[a1o]

I think kubernets is only the sound

[braiamp]

And sadly, those are going to die out eventually, so the faster we get there, the less potentials for something breaking in a way that nobody would be able to figure it out.

[aldanor]

Who will, technical merits, programming languages or maintainers?