[simion314]

>This is classic EU. An announcement of an effort to collect collaborators to discuss doing something that they might do in the future.

It should be done in secret? How did they manage to create CERN? maybe there was no reddit like people commenting back then?

[ffsm8]

No, but collaboration comes with a cost too.

As a European myself, I would prefer them to put less emphasis on collaboration and more on actually doing something's with the resources available to them and making that freely available. Collaboration will happen naturally and without having to coordinate.

But as they said, this is less about producing value then it's about signaling

[amarcheschi]

I don't get this. At the beginning of the press release they cite eurohpc. Before eurohpc, it was probably announced with a similar press release. And then it existed

[forty]

Collaboration brought us peace. Peace is underrated these days.

(NB: I mean the good kind of collaboration of course, on science and industry - it's a loaded word in French at least)

[pmontra]

I don't agree with that. We had two powers dividing Europe in two, placing their own armies all over the place and doinglg their best to convince the other party that the world would be destroyed if it dared to attack. That was what brought us peace. Collaboration in the form of the various European international organizations was a consequence.

Making another war in Europe was basically impossible. We had one in Yugoslavia which was not aligned with the two blocks and anyway only after the USSR lost the cold war.

[simion314]

The idea is that EU countries do not see themselves at rivals, this is very different then our entire history where everyone had an issue with their neighbors (there are exceptions of neighbors not having any conflicts). Most educated Europeans are now considering the entire EU as a similar culture and not want to start a fight to kill each other for some historical land, the exception are the uneducated or just low IQ people that fall for extreme nationalists that push for "Make our country a great empire again"

Your point is about the Cold War, nuclear weapons prevented nuclear alliances to attack each other, it did not prevent say two NATO non nuclear members to start conflicts.

[simion314]

So CERN and similar? you think it could have been done without any coordonation? Like 2 guys faking under they make it USA style ?

[wahnfrieden]

They mistake transparency for performativity, and secrecy for practicality

[ffsm8]

Well, what actual value did cern produce beyond theoretical research with no application in sight?

[jkaptur]

In case you're serious: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_World_Wide_Web

[greenavocado]

ARPANET and its successor TCP/IP already provided the fundamental networking infrastructure. Various hypertext systems were also being developed independently in and before the 1980s, like Ted Nelson's Xanadu project and Bill Atkinson's HyperCard. The key ideas of linked documents and markup languages were "in the air" so to speak. However, CERN provided some unique conditions that helped the WWW succeed where other systems didn't. It had an immediate practical need - helping physicists share information across institutions. It was developed in an open, non-commercial environment that encouraged sharing. CERN made the WWW technology freely available without royalties. The international nature of CERN helped drive early adoption across countries.

Without CERN, I think we would have eventually seen some form of hyperlinked document system emerge from either academia or industry, but it might have been more proprietary or fragmented.

[simion314]

And NASA? they just send robots in space to make pictures? Not sure why you are here and not on TikTok with such anti science ideology.

[rtsil]

Theoretical research in itself is one of the actual values. Any real-world application from CERN are purely incidental (albeit welcome).

The other values include redistribution of wealth, support for businesses, job creation, sustaining internal intellectual capabilities without depending on the whims of fickle corporations, and probably many others that I can't think of for now.

[ravetcofx]

Many things including New forms of cancer treatment https://home.cern/news/news/knowledge-sharing/fighting-cance...

[supermatt]

The web. Some people use that.

[mmaunder]

It’s like telling someone you’re planning on starting a diet and getting congratulated.

[simion314]

So tell us how NASA is doing this decades long plans, they should keep them secret? Should HNers vote on what NASA should do ?

[mmaunder]

See Artemis for an answer to how NASA is doing. They’re in trouble. Post Apollo they became very ineffective at big space projects. I say that with respect as an aviator who has benefited much from their past and ongoing work.

[simion314]

I guess the main point is that NASA is forced to have contracts to verious USA states because of politics, but you have robots on Mars, space probes outside the Solar System, and other ambitious plans that are announced and discussed not revealed in a PR conference where the CEO removes a blanket and shows you the latest robot and fanboys chear.

I understand MAGA and Elon fanboys are attacking NASA and claim that master Elon can do it better so the government should give Elon all the money, no auctions or checks to be done. I mean all Elon promises were fulfilled on time and on budget , right ?

[picafrost]

> It should be done in secret?

No?

> How did they manage to create CERN?

I have no clue. It appears that was 70 years ago.

> maybe there was no reddit like people commenting back then?

Huh?

The EU is often criticized for its lack of competitiveness due to its highly regulated environment, low investment numbers, risk aversion, and slow moving bureaucracy. This announcement hits all of these points. I am European as well, and it just makes me sad? It is more of the same. This doesn't look like a serious effort to propel Europe to the cutting-edge or even the conversation. It's just enough to say we're doing something, without a high risk of calling it a failure if nothing ends up being delivered.

Europe doesn't lack talent or initiative. If you look at the top AI research institutions out there, a great many of them are composed of researchers who originated from Europe. What is the US offering them that Europe is not? That is many things, none of which are are actively being addressed in the EU. There's a high likelihood that academic beneficiaries of these funds will end up in the US due to the absurd salaries and cutting edge positions.

I prefer the regulated EU environment. I value my privacy and think the EU is doing the right, long-term thing. I don't mind the reduced salaries here -- I worked in the US for years but returned back to Europe because I share its values. But there's no point in pretending the EU will be a serious contender in this environment.

[01HNNWZ0MV43FF]

It probably should not be number 2 on Hacker News, unless Hacker News has a lot of readers who might contribute to this effort

[progbits]

> unless Hacker News has a lot of readers who might contribute to this effort

But it obviously does? Maybe not people who "want" but definitely many who "might".

If anything this is one of the better places to advertise, and certainly more interesting than another "Hooli (YC99) is hiring to democratize breathing".

[simion314]

>It probably should not be number 2 on Hacker News, unless Hacker News has a lot of readers who might contribute to this effort

I agree, but some EU people want to share it and USA guys and EU skeptiks want to shit on it. Probably we should post a wikipedia article about CERN and have Elon fanboys explain how Elon can do it it better while his bit* Trump could make our eggs cheaper.