[hwbehrens]

> Without advocacy, conferences, documentation and tutorials, Matrix would become a niche protocol used by a few enthusiasts for side projects, whilst big proprietary and siloed networks continue to hold the world’s communications.

Advocacy and conferences aren't going to move the needle on mainstream adoption; those methods almost by definition are targeting the enthusiast crowd. In my view, the only factor that matters to attracting users is UI/UX. Streamlining the user's experience will do more for user adoption than any number of bridges.

It's possible that growing the community is the primary goal of Element.io rather than the Matrix Foundation, but in that case, it seems that there is a tension between the goals of the foundation vs Element. I'd like to understand the breakdown between the responsibilities of the foundation vs Element more clearly.

[neiljohnson]

The Matrix Foundation's goals and structure are described here (https://matrix.org/foundation/about/)

Element is a for-profit company, originally set up to hire the Matrix Core team and is the primary driver for many projects in the Matrix eco-system. Element cannot be successful without a thriving Matrix eco-system.

In the early days the line between Element and Matrix was rather blurred, which is why we set up the Foundation as a separate entity in 2018 to ensure that whatever happened to Element, Matrix could continue as an independent entity.

[superkuh]

Except that the Matrix Foundation has already given up control of the reference implementation and protocol architectural choices back to Riot.im/Element.io corporation. This happened a year or two ago.

It was blurred for a handful of years. Now it is clearly in control of Element.io corporation again.

[matt-p]

"would become a niche protocol.." I would say that's exactly what it is today, more conferences will clearly not change that.

[solarkraft]

I entirely agree. The advocacy they should be doing is making it as attractive as possible to develop new clients (with good UX) so that finally one with a good UX will come out.

[Sincere6066]

I mean, I've tried to use Matrix many times overy many years. I do care about more than JUST the UX but it has been SO consistently bad that I just can't. Something has gotta change, preferably before Discord completely implodes.

[Arathorn]

the thing that changed is that Element rewrote the mobile apps and made them not suck. Web will follow shortly: https://element.io/blog/we-have-lift-off-element-x-call-and-... etc

[kevincox]

For the second time...

And they still don't support many features...

And there is lack of compatibility for things like video calling so transitioning to them is infeasible for lots of people.

This sort of seems like the sort of UX issue OP is concerned about.

[genewitch]

Video calls work on schildichat on android but I use straight element now and I'd have to check.

We are all aware that matrix needs a TURN/STUN server to do audio and video calls, right? I think users might be able to specify their own turn server, but if your homeserver can't punch NAT you're not making video calls, period.

I don't know of any non-centralized functional service offhand that can do peer to peer video or voice without an intermediary 100% of the time. That crap died in the 90s.

[rlpb]

I tried Element X but it failed to authenticate with no suitable explanation for me because it's lacking SAML support.

Edit: it's also lacking threads still, apparently?