[Kelvin506]

They can't grasp that miscarriages, which occur for many reasons even in healthy people, have exactly the same emergent medical care needs as abortions. Laws banning abortions usually also interfere with (if not outright block) access to necessary care.

It's a textbook example of how theocracy is wholly incapable of sound public governance.

[jermaustin1]

Until the mid-late 1800s, abortions were legal, and even allowed by the Catholic Church until "quickening" (when you were able to feel the fetus kicking/moving).

Abortion became illegal and started to get "theocratized" for business interests by the American Medical Association for regulatory capture of "physician services" and push out homeopaths and midwives where were the administers of abortion drugs. The AMA lobbied congress and Congress passed the Comstock Act of 1873, and finally made abortion illegal in 1880.

Prior to these, abortion was not only legal, but it was not even considered immoral. It was just a fact of life.

[potato3732842]

The AMA really is the gift that keeps on giving. They're right up there with police unions.

[boredhedgehog]

> Until the mid-late 1800s, abortions were legal, and even allowed by the Catholic Church until "quickening" (when you were able to feel the fetus kicking/moving).

No, the Church has never allowed abortion. When gradual ensoulment of the fetus was the dominant scientific theory, the quickening marked the difference between homicide and murder.

[defrost]

Medieval intellectuals, including Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Hildegard von Bingen, believed that the fetus only received its soul around 40 days after conception.

No soul, no murder.

[Xunjin]

Do you have a reference? Not doubting you, just want to learn more about it.

[defrost]

Forty plus years ago I took Philosophy mainly for twentieth century logic under Graham Priest and alongside a few peers that now do fancy Royal Institution physics, run their own philosophy departments, etc.

As part of that I was roped into also taking Morals and Ethics led by a talented Jesuit type whose name escapes me and who went at depth into many such questions; I had the actual original texts by the three I mentioned in front of me back in the day.

Right now, the best I can do on the fly is point at, say:

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/augustine/#SoulCreaBein

and state that Augustine made a strong case for soul–body dualism and considered at least three paths for the soul to join the body, along with the belief that that a soul must also leave a body, and (IIRC) wrote about "the quickening" (motion of a fetus) being a sign of a soul either transfering in part from the mother or arriving "from outside" via God, etc.

He also remained uncommitted to "one true notion" for the bulk of his life (according to the Stanford and other articles I skimmed).

Augustine is, I believe, the best known for writing on soul-body dualism but I have not taken a deep interest in this area of Philosophy and am by no means an expert.

If you're interested in leaning more about the thoughts that humans have had on the matter that's likely a good starting point for reading material and references, going forward it'd be best to find a diverse group of other interested parties in that part of Philosophy, there will be no absolute answers, just a wealth of conjecture and reasoned arguments for sometimes opposing opinions.