[h335ian]

So disappointed by the irrational and hyperbolic comments from my fellow nerds. Why are folks reading into this so much!? Clearly folks aren’t actually reading the content and just reacting based on a headline. Read, contemplate, compose. This really shouldn’t be an inflammatory exec order - from what I can tell this is precisely within the purview of a POTUS and precisely in line with historical exec orders. Why the cray cray reactions? Just cause Trump I guess. For shame. Be nerds. Look stuff up. Stop with the hyperbolic “fascist” “coup” business. If you disagree with strategy, fine!! But at least recognize that these ideas aren’t new - nor fascistic - they’re inherently American and we’re in the midst of an adjustment cycle where these old ideals will be expressed in new modalities that we don’t all agree with. Doesn’t make it “fascist”. Ugh. So juvenile.

[Zamaamiro]

Rather than gesturing generally at all of these "irrational" and "hyperbolic" comments, why not take the time to thoughtfully rebut any specific comment that you believe is engaging in irrationality and hyperbole?

I would also cool it with the dismissive tone and avoid saying things like "cray cray" before accusing anyone else of being juvenile.

[conartist6]

Kushner said it best. "Noone goes as low as Trump." So you also get to deal with what politics looks like when it reaches its lowest, nastiest form.

Trump's a hero to the right, but on the left there's a pretty reasonable sense that Trump's actions have already amounted to literal treason if you consider him to have an obligation to uphold the oaths he has taken.

He attempted to get Zelensky to go on US TV and execute a political attack on Democrats as a condition of the US helping Ukraine.

He attempted to get the 2020 election flipped by making mafia-don style calls to Georgia asking them to "find" precisely the number of votes which would have made him win that election. He next asked Pence to change the result for him. All of these were acts of open treason against the People of the United States, so long as you count the People of the United States as including people who didn't vote for him.

[conartist6]

To make it crystal f**ing clear: him changing the policy of the US isn't treason. Cozying up to Russia or trying to reduce the size of the government are his prerogative as elected leader in a way that trying to change the result of an election is not. Ohh yeah and I forgot that he tried to get everyone to stop counting the votes while he was ahead! That also goes in the treason most foul bucket.

[kelnos]

> trying to reduce the size of the government are his prerogative as elected leader

No, that function is within the purview of the legislature, not the executive branch.

[piva00]

What's your personal threshold for gatekeeping when people are supposed to call it fascist?

Have you done your nerd research on how Nazis dismantled the democratic state? If so, at what step would you have gatekept calling it fascist?

Blanket calling worried people as "juvenile" as a dismissal is in itself pretty fucking juvenile, hope you can see that.

[scarab92]

Progressives are using words like Nazi and fascist, purely as a slur against a political rival, without really understanding what those words mean nor the attrocities they represent.

What the Nazi's did was horrifici, and it's incredibly insensitive, inappropriate, and, yes, juvenile, to water that down by using it for political point scoring.

[Gigachad]

What’s the threshold before you can say it? Doing nazi salutes and mass deleting the public research / books / info pages isn’t far enough yet?

[lazide]

I guarantee you’ll still be seeing people doing this long after Trump is dead. The point isn’t that there is an actual line. The point is that there IS NO actual line. The goalposts will shift forever.

[piva00]

Not only progressives are calling it fascism or proto-fascism, do you understand the steps fascism takes to fully take hold? Don't you see any parallels? Have you read any books on the subject?

It seems like you get butthurt from reading people calling moves very similar to fascism done by politicians you support, fascism takes many flavours, Italian fascism was different from German fascism. The way it's going the past month looks like to be shaping an American flavour of fascism.

There's no watering down, you are seeing with your own eyes a movement happening where the leader of the executive is attempting to snatch power, it never happens at once, it's always through salami slicing. What will be the breaking point for you, specifically? What signs do you expect so it can be called fascism?

You are all around this forum whining about "progressives" trying to heed a call about a dark path being traced. You never seem to acknowledge there are very worrying moves happening, for some reason you do not want to hear it, you want to shut off the discussion at every turn by using progressives as a slur, and anything said by that out-group as wrong or hysterical a priori. Can't you see how stupid it is? You are always attempting to throw a wrench into these discussions with vitriol, as a non-American I really ask you to inform and educate yourself better, to learn about the process of fascism before coming with knee-jerk reactions because you don't like "progressives".

Go read "Hitler's Beneficiaries", read any book on historical recounts of the process of fascism unravelling from the 1920s to the 1930s, you are behaving exactly as the citizens enabling Mussolini and Hitler. American Fascism will not be Nazi or Italia Fascista, it has its own shape and form (such as not being anti-semitic, completely different to Nazis) but even though the topography differs, the core principles are pretty much the same.

Don't be an enabler, you won't like to be on the wrong side of history.

[StefanBatory]

Few days ago, in Poland died a journalist, historian and former Auschwitz concentration camp prisoner. He was known for speaking every year there. His last speech was - remain vigilant.

I think that speaks for itself and I need not to comment on this.

Americans, why? Why are you so keen on dabbling with a homegrown fascism of yours? Why are you so keen on setting the world aflame?

[etchalon]

Eggs cost too much.

[computerthings]

> What signs do you expect so it can be called fascism?

I think some people just know a few images from the Nazis at the height of their power. Or the death camps, that were only discovered because the Nazis lost the war (the plan was to erase all traces, after all). No concept of the 1920s, not even "Mein Kampf", nothing.

[piva00]

That's been my impression too, seems like people (even more Americans) are extremely uneducated about the whole process of fascism. Instead they end up with this cartoonesque picture of what it looks like: SS officers standing guard over concentration camps, Hitler's speeches to huge crowds wearing swastika armbands, war.

No, that's the fucking end point of it, after all is done and the wheels have been far gone from the wagon, the process itself is much more nuanced and step-wise but the uneducated ones never ever heard of it. Feels like they live in a world where someone turned on a switch and everything changed at once...

Worst: it's coming from people who have lived through a pandemic, watched the social strife and divisions unfolding right in front of their faces, how can those same people not see that massive social movements aren't ever clear-cut? It's all just so stupid and ignorant.

[kelnos]

As an American, I'm not surprised, unfortunately. When we learn about history in grade school, we don't really learn about the rise of fascism in the 1920s and 30s. If we do, little time is spent on it. Most of the time is spent on WWII itself, with of course a bunch of self-congratulatory stuff about how the world would have burned if the US hadn't joined in (conveniently ignoring how long it took for the US to join in).

Most Americans couldn't tell you much about how Hitler came into power. (Or Mussolini? Forget it.) The majority of what Americans know about it all are exactly what you said: black-and-white scenes of SS officers, Hilter giving speeches, and swastika armbands.

There's no lingering WWII war damage in the US. We don't have monuments dedicating places where major battles were fought. The war wasn't fought here. We don't see reminders of what all that was like.

When I was born, WWII was only 35 years behind us. Many of the people who were involved in it at the time (politicians, soldiers, etc.) were not only alive, but still active in public discourse in major ways. But today, WWII ended 80 years ago. Most everyone who experienced it is dead. Awareness of all of it is still present in Europe because it was all literally close to home. Not so in the US.

This honestly shouldn't be all that surprising. History repeats and rhymes, over and over throughout the decades and centuries. All it takes is a couple generations to forget its lessons.

I see comments in these threads from people who lived through the forming of dictatorships in their countries. I wish more people would listen to them.

[etc-hosts]

I don't call Trump's recent actions as strictly Nazi, but they are definitely Fascist.

[thiht]

This is not hyperbolic. In one month Trump has taken full unchecked power on almost anything. In 4 years, you won’t vote, that’s a given.

[bobsmooth]

Republicans were saying the exact same thing when Obama was elected.

[kelnos]

That doesn't actually argue anything, though. One group can be wrong about something, and another group can be right about a similar thing in a different context and different time.

(For the record, I don't agree with GP, and do believe that we'll have free and fair elections in 2028.)

[blased]

So when 4 years pass and we’re still voting, are you going to admit you are hyperbolic and divorced from reality?

[intended]

Would you be around if he does what he says ?

At what point are your personal thresholds crossed?

I dont understand personally, how any conservative could tolerate this man.

Nor any techie lose their minds when someone without a security clearance gets access to sensitive national networks.

I’ve seen more complex plans used by spies to break into state secrets.

Yet, people are surprisingly chill.

So perhaps I am wrong. And perhaps there are other signs I should be looking for.

At what point should I or anyone say “major redlines have been crossed.”

[Nasrudith]

The red line for Trump's people unfortunately isn't doing anything bad. He could shoot a man on fifth avenue and not lose them. It would take him doing something which shows actual human decency and actually helps people. If he attempted to create "Trump-care" providing unconditional healthcare for all he would be impeached and out on his ass. God forbid if he were to recognize LGBTQ rights and acknowledge their legitimacy, that action would literally kill people from shock.

[sirbutters]

Exactly, the one area where he would lose the crowd is if he goes against the conservative "christians". ie: if he openly embraces LGBTQ, fully supports abortion rights, taxes churches etc. Only then would these people revolt.

[blased]

> Nor any techie lose their minds when someone without a security clearance gets access to sensitive national networks.

There's something peculiar about how liberals are now so offended by "security" when the federal government has showed complete incompetence over the past decade or even more.

All the security clearance data was leaked from federal servers. What else do we have to lose. Never mind that countless federal employees see your social security info. It's regularly fraudulently submitted by illegal foreigners too.

None of the criticisms I've seen from you or others are alarming.

What was alarming was watching Biden for 4 years completely non compos mentis and a media filled with liberals who would censor and ridicule ANY mention of this obvious fact. That's the GRAVEST national security threat, everything else PALES in comparison, and not a peep from the people who lit their entire political capital on fire over the ridiculous patently-false charades to never admit fault.

[intended]

Why are you dodging the question. I’m no longer playing ball with this idea that I will run after the next shiny object or gambit.

What are your personal red lines? I am serious. Sure. Biden may have been whatever, But you will still have some personal lines you wouldn’t cross.

You have values, you have things you would like to know you stood up for.

What are they? This isn’t a gotcha. If you think the line is not crossed, no problem.

But tell me what your lines are.

[thiht]

Sure. As long as:

- there are non Republican candidates to vote for

- the right to vote hasn't been crippled somehow

- elections are fair

[blased]

I guarantee this will be the case, as it's been the case every election since forever including 2020 when liberals were fear-mongering (like they always do) when they were out of power.

[thiht]

Was the Capitol incident fear-mongering too?

[thiht]

Funny that just a few hours after this post, Trump starts referring to himself as "the King" on social media. I wonder if it’s a hint of something, like the time he said people won’t need to vote in 4 years.

[userbinator]

I'm saving a link to your comment along with a reminder to check back in 2028.